Is it Bad That I ALREADY Don’t Care?
Second week on the job (AN1). Felt that when I was an intern with a RO on the line, I was an appeaser; I’d always be willing to do whatever was asked of me to the best of my ability. Now that I’m back FT, I find it impossible to maintain that level of hunger and motivation.
At the end of the day, I think this job - or at least its nature - is quite stupid. A few extremely late nights and I’m already cutting a few corners (e.g. using AI, not checking things thoroughly before emailing). And what’s there to lose? A reputation in a culture that doesn’t align with my personal values to begin with, that will no longer matter a few years down the line?
TLDR: As an intern, my job was at stake and that was all the motivation I needed to pretend to “care,” but now the only thing at stake when I give 75% instead of 100% is a few incremental k’s on my bonus. Idgaf if I used square bullets instead of round; I’ll turn those for you when I get around to it buddy.
This is an evermore present mindset in Gen Z. Not necessarily a bad thing but it's definitely generational.
I don't think there's anything wrong with this mindset as long as you're aware of the consequences and risks, and where it leaves you longer term. Ultimately yes, the job is stupid (like most jobs) and we're all just LARPing as being of importance.
Also bear in mind though that even before considering the risk of being fired, you can't keep this up forever. You will eventually becomes so nihilistic and full of resentment for the role (especally as your responsibilities naturally increase) that you are forced to leave.
The reality is pay doesn’t align with the sacrifice. Reasonably good pay for unreasonable expectations. You get what you pay for. If the biggest benefit of a job is that it lets you land your next job, there are no incentives to kill yourself for it. Back in the day an analyst would hit the desk and think “if I do this well, I will amass wealth quickly”. That helps you push through mentally. Now for an analyst who already has their next job lined up, the only thing at stake is not risking that next job (i.e., don’t get fired by your bank between now and then).
Honestly a lot of people I meet nowadays also don't really care that much about amassing wealth. They just wanna be comfortable.
How much more would, say an analyst, need to make for it to “align with the sacrifice”?
Feel u man - job isn’t fulfilling for all. Some have such an organic passion for the markets and finance, some used the grind to get through heartbreak or other hardships, some are only motivated by money, (mine are a combination of all 3) but the vast majority of people would not find the nature and end goal of the career fulfilling (sacrificing every waking hour to make a founder or management team richer, while you collect a check that’s essentially just the same as working two corporate jobs) and that’s perfectly normal. My advice is to give it a year, and re-evaluate after that. Perfectly normal feeling to have brother. Keep pushing and try to find meaning in the work, and meaning in the sacrifice it takes to be an effective analyst.
Who is using finance to get over heartbreak 😭
Nah this job is retarded. Use it to your advantage (comp, exit, etc) and not the other way around.
Also being top bucket is not worth it. Be upper middle
Cool bro you’ll work same hours and get less out of the job enjoy
you should start building relationships with people at your firm which you can look up to - VP/Director level. these folks tend to have more passion in the game and make it more interesting - seeing the bigger picture and such
anyway, if that doesn't work then no harm in admitting this job isn't for you... no big deal about it. nobody forcing you to enjoy it
I'm just an intern in IB and I already can envision myself not giving a fuck when fulltime starts. Really makes me question whether I should pivot before graduating.
But the grueling, impossible question is to pivot to what? At the analyst level, i'd heard restructuring, pe, vc is just as shitty. So what, go do asset management, S&T, or equity research where your job is even more mundane? Maybe go be an entrepreneur?
Your job is still at stake buddy
Unless times are bad or you just really really suck, it's actually pretty hard to be fired as an analyst.
Either way, people with this mindset tend to actually welcome being fired for the severance and forces them to re-evaluate their options.
While that is historically quite true, I don't have any data to back it up but I think I am seeing analysts fired/coached out/zeroed bonus more often lately and it is because of these edge cases where they clearly dgaf
That might have been true a while ago but analysts have definitely been cut at banks over the past few years. It's more of a targeted reduction in some cases but it's not like a whole cohort of analysts are untouchable just because they're new.
You’ve reached enlightenment
people on this site always seem to forget that at the end of the day, ib is js a job. You don’t have to be absolutely stoked every second of the job. Its its just a means to an end that pays incredibly well and opens a bunch of doors
Are you telling me you're not passionate about IB like you said you were during your interview process?
WTF man!?!
As someone else already mentioned, your job is still at stake. Give a shit enough so you don't get fired.
Unlike what someone else already mentioned, this is not just a Gen Z thing, it's an "entering into the workforce" thing. You spend your life going to school, having summer breaks, no real responsibilities, etc. and then suddenly you're in the office 5-7 days a week, working 40-80 hours (taking both finance and non-finance jobs into account with this), with limited time to do all the stuff you used to and you're staring down a 40 year barrel of the same shit. Everyone deals with it at some point or another.
My advice, do your job so you don't get fired, but figure out what you want to do next. Don't waste 40 years putting up with shit you hate. You don't need to love your job, or enjoy every moment of it, but having a job that at least nominally makes you excited is way better for your overall wellbeing.
(Plus, it's not just the industry/field that determines this, it's the organization. I did development at a shop with the worst boss I could possibly imagine and hated every moment. I then did development at a shop with a great boss and I love it. Same work, different work environment. It can make all the difference.)
With how early on-cycle is, surely IB and PE professionals must've realized this would be a common occurrence. Like obviously I cared a lot as an intern since we were being evaluated, but I was thinking why would anyone dedicate their life and soul to some bogus CIM if they already have their exit planned and in hand.
Hi All, OP here - thank you for your empathetic responses. Honestly, I was expecting something more along the lines of ~ "quit being a baby," "you're not cut out for this / you're in the wrong place."
Definitely appreciate that I'm not the only that feels this way
Does anyone have advice on how to combat this? If you encounter this how do you fight it. Ultimately I feel like I’d get to this point with any job and just need to push through. Your job is a job at the end of the day, you just need to push thru.
Any tips?
What’s wrong with using AI lol? Any BS slide about culture or whatever I’ll have Claude make that. Pretty sure one of my directors has Claude do his whole job.
I think you have to frame your job as a series of stepping stones you take to build a career you “care” about. Yes IB grunt work is stupid. You’re also a fresh grad that has nothing to offer in a business context yet (no capital, no deep professional relationships with people who transact, no lived experience of playbooks on how to tackle business problems - whatever). If you want to be valuable in business, which is essentially just building good shit to sell or being Chad enough to make friends who transact and taking a cut of that (ie financialization) and for most it takes 10 years of stupid grunt work to be able to do that effectively.
You don’t have to think highly of your work to just use it as a means to an end, I really don’t understand the philosophical waffling about our work “not mattering :(“, if you care so much about that you wouldn’t have gone into finance, you would’ve become a doctor or a teacher or something. Sir, you just want lots of money for the lease amount of effort like the rest of us so we can actually afford to do shit we care about. Is being handsomely paid to move logos around a screen that damn bad? Have boundaries that protect a minimum amount of sleep a day and then do your two years and gtfo to the next thing, it’s really *not that deep*.
Not sure why anyone is surprised that 50 years of an industry going from masters of the universe to will you ever be able to even buy a house in the tri state area crushes people’s motivations
Seems like you haven’t considered the alternatives. Just about all jobs are BS and lack fulfillment. It’s just work, do your job and be grateful that you get to do BS for a bigger paycheck than 95% of Americans.
Just get your exit then you can focus on not giving a crap while not being fired
Do what you want man but your job is definitely still on the line. Not the same market but I got let go just a few months into my analyst program a while back. I coped at the time - market, bad timing, unlucky. No dude I just fucking sucked at the job. It basically worked out in the end (I'm still working in finance), but if you're serious about the full two years in IB you need to keep that in mind. Investment banking isn't for everyone but right now you have the opportunity to stay if you do a good job. Won't be as easy to get back in. Sure you could coast but you might find yourself on your back foot recruiting as essentially a recent grad. It was an uphill battle to find something else and yeah I didn't get any credit for the short time. Worked on one deal (closed after my time) and basically started my career six months after graduation.
Some dumb ass mistakes I made - haven't done any of these things in four years but man was I retarded. DONT DO THIS SHIT
Yeah I realize you're planning to give 75% effort instead of 100%. Who says your bank views your 100% effort as acceptable or commendable? Sure be efficient with your time but be prepared for the worst if you aren't putting out great work. I know during September and October I had been on the desk a few weeks and started to get comfortable. No I was getting complacent and no one told me directly that I was on notice.
It's a total myth that analysts never get fired. I've seen it a handful of times across post 2020 grads in my network. Which level has the least stake in the firm? Easiest replaced within 3-6 months? Last in first out is painless. I promise you the MDs would be hard pressed to notice who exactly was missing a few weeks after cuts. Analysts aren't as expensive as a VP or director, but who has more institutional knowledge and political capital?
To your credit I think you know where the line is and are most likely going to be fine at least for a little while. Just not a good mode to be in coasting from the start line
Get married and have a child. You’ll start caring
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