What do salaries look like for Ibankers in the first 10 years compared to a lawyer in a large new york firm? regional firm?
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Early Career Lawyer Salaries
For data on law salaries, the National Association for Law Placement has decent data. The chart below shows 2017 data for First Year Associates. The full report also includes geographic distribution, with NYC, DC and LA making up most of the $180,000+ starting salaries.
Early Career Investment Banking Salaries
The 2018 WSO Investment Banking Report contains detailed salary data, as well as feedback on firm reputation, hours worked, career progression and more. The chart below shows how the banking salaries and bonuses increase with promotions.
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"What do salaries look like for Ibankers in the first 10 years compared to a lawyer in a large new york firm?"
At a typical large New York law firm you start at $125-150K (including bonus), and it goes up about $10-20K each year. The better the firm, the more it is on the higher side of those ranges. Bonuses are rarely larger than 20% of your salary, and firms that pay larger bonuses tend to have lower bases, so it isn't usually the big deal it is in I-banking. (In rare cases firms pay super-bonuses to specific individuals, like someone who bills 3000 hours in a year when the firm normally expects 2000.)
While almost all firms have an eight year partnership track, the chance of making partner and the salaries partners get varies significantly by firm. Some firms have 2-3 tiers of partnership, and only the senior partners get the huge salaries - but those firms tend to make junior partners more easily, and they get $200-600k depending on the firm. At firms that have only one class of partner with equal salaries for all partners, the chance of a new associate making it to partner can be around 5%, but salaries can be over $1 million. Some firms have only one class of partner, but partner salaries depend on the business you bring in, and they tend to make junior partners somewhat more easily, but usually not as easily as the three-class firms. Most people don't expect to make partner, and probably a majority of the starting associate class at a large firm will leave for smaller or mid-size firms, for legal jobs at corporations, or for I-Banking or other non-law jobs by their fifth year.
As compared with I-banking, the hours for junior law associates are on average slightly lower than for I-banking associates, but a lot of this can depend on how busy your specific group is or what your partners are like rather than an absolute trend. It can easily vary a lot based on the deal flow - it's very rare for lawyers to always put in 80+ hour weeks like some bankers, OTOH you will usually have some months or at least weeks that are like that and some months that are slow. Most junior lawyers put in either late nights or weekends, but not both. The hours for senior associates at big firms are comparable to VP hours - if you are still at a big firm at that point, you really have to put in the hours to have a shot at the partnership. Law firm partners tend to work more hours than I-bank MDs, but there is usually much less travel involved.
As for regional law firms, the starting salaries in the major markets are comparable or close to NY, but the increases tend to be smaller, and the partner salaries are generally much lower. $200-300K is not unusual for partners in all but the top firms in other markets. Most large firms in other markets work a lot fewer hours than New York, but that's not absolute - each of the other major markets has 1-2 firms that work New York hours and claim to do "New York work".
THANK YOU! that was a great help. i'll look more into this.
accounting partners make a comparable amount as well in big 4 or large regional
really? i've only heard accounting partners making max salaries of 300K in Big 4 and thats takes a while too. Can anyone confirm this?
Oh and also what do consultants pay look like. Again within the same 10 years and progression etc. an indepth answer would be greatly appreciated.
Big Four partners can make those figures. It's a dawg eat dawg world.
Big 4 in NY probably make close to 1 mill.
Just curious, what could a Big 4 partner make in a small city of like 125,000 (population)?
oh wow, i honestly never knew that because where I live partners at big 4 only make about 300K max and thats after 25 years. lol why not just be an accountant then! low stress!
...low-ER stress at least, not to mention you can actually enjoy your youth. However, you must understand that only like 5-10% of people ever make it to partner, both because many jump ship to industry and take better paying jobs with lower hrs when they are at manager level etc. or you simply are not on the "Partner" track according to the other partners, and are forced to jump ship to industry. Plenty of politics at the higher levels of the game as I would imagine in ibanking as well
I suppose. I guess at least in banking you can make 1 mil + at VP/MD level which only takes about 10 years where in accounting it takes at least 20-25 years to be a partner.
NOW... answer my consulting salary question! j/k :P
ha, I wish I could. Also, that is simply not true about taking 25 yrs to be a partner in accounting. I think average is about 11 yrs in Big 4.
...to be the senior partner fatcat making 1 mill, may however take much longer. The title of partner though is about 11 yrs though
ahh yes sorry thats what i meant. I was reading the KPMG career path and it says about 9-12 years to make partner. At this point i think your still only pulling in 150K or so because accountants start off at such a low salary and climbs so slowly; also bounuses are basically shit correct? I still find it hard to belive that partners made that much. I was always under the impression that 25 yr + partners make good money like 300K-500K max but never 1 mil.
Wait, how long does it take to be a senior partner making 1 mil
with talent and special niches can make close to a million
Those miserable DLJ asssociates felt "a little better" when they found out that they make more than the hard working Lawyers (associates).
Accy partnership rate is about 1-2% of the people starting out, and you still have to sell your self out once you make partner, lots of partners burn out right after they make it because they cannot keep selling more products to clients. If you can get into IB f accy.
I always thought corp lawyers got as or more screwed than us I-bankers on hours as no matter what time i send something out to the working group, i always get an email back from the junior CL (and not from bberry). They are also sending stuff out at all hours...and actually have to make the changes to prospectuses that we send to them at 3am whilst still attending closings the next morning etc etc......
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I'd second that. Not to mention the tedium of legalese, supervising due diligence, managing federal/state/municipal registrations and regulations. There's a lot of stuff that gets passed through from our side that they have to pore over. Talking hundreds of pages of corporate minutes - riveting stuff.
It would be interesting to compare the salaries of the heaviest hitters at law firms and investment banks. On the lawyer side you have guys like Bill Lerach: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-10-12/convicted-king-of-cla… and Joe Jamail. While on the investment banking side you have guys like Ken Moelis.
There is no comparison, it's just easier and less risky to get into and stay in a Big 4 or an AM Law 250 firm. The salaries are commensurate.
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