No return offer - feeling like a failure is an understatement
I feel so gutted and that is an understatement. Basically I was told during mid summer I was a top performer. I then unfortunately didn’t do very well on my final presentation. I was dealing with some personal issues which I’m not using an excuse but an explanation. I was barely sleeping (I was spinning my wheels like a maniac) and trying to perfect every little thing in my presentation (in the materials I submitted) that in hindsight I should’ve spent that time on maybe actually practicing presenting or practicing my conceptual understanding.
That got me cut.
I guess it’s the name of the game, but I cannot help but think how I was a great and proactive asset on my deal teams (which has been corroborated), spent so much time getting to know people, tried so hard to meet the bar despite not coming from a finance major background, and my project is what ultimately got me cut. My group had like a 50% ro conversion.
I feel super dejected. I worked so hard to get here and while I really enjoyed the work (truly I did), and I’d love to work in the industry FT, I also want to be realistic and don’t wanna fit a circle peg into a square hole. I feel like I’m almost embarrassing myself.
Looking for some advice, or stories, I guess. I just wanted to vent or hear from people who have gone through similar instances.
Wow, are you me? This is exactly the boat that I am in. Im so sorry, it’s such an awful feeling. Would love some advice as well.
Yeah this fucking sucks, feel like I could’ve done better but several people clearly came in with the upper hand politically, and that gap only widened even with persistent intros w/ my team. Combined with little reps and several failed deals just leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth. I knew it was coming but how can my future be decided on ~2-3 weeks of work that actually mattered.
Same situation man, don’t let this be a reflection of yourself. This is just a job, and those are just their opinions at the end of the day. We gotta prove them wrong
Replying as someone who was in the same boat last year with no return offer. Honestly it’s not worth your mental energy to go and try to prove a bunch of assholes wrong who only knew 1 aspect about you for 10 weeks. I’ve had and still have that feeling a lot but honestly it’s just better to focus on your own success and be proud you refused to give up even when major adversity like that comes your way. You prove people wrong when that’s not your main intention, it’s a powerful feeling but ultimately just unsustainable and only does damage to your mental health. Go kick some ass
I didn’t get a return offer from my internship. It was the first time I’d ever failed at something so important to me, and it led to a real reckoning with myself over what would make me happy and why I wanted to pursue finance in the first place.
I landed in a spot in IB I’m very satisfied with, but wasn’t something I would’ve considered a massive win when I was a sophomore gunning for a name-brand firm. My gratitude for what I have is tenfold even though it was a notable step down in prestige.
I’d suggest you hit the ground running on full-time recruiting, but also take the opportunity to do some soul searching on what mistakes you made and whether the path you’re on is what you want anyway. I’m not going to BS you and claim “this will help your career in the long run” but it’s 100% true that your setbacks can be your greatest gift if you want them to be. What you can stand to gain from this is much greater than your career, and you control that narrative.
Feel free to PM me, I’d be happy to speak. Keep your head up.
Guessing this is Wells Fargo, very similar situation. Cuts in my group made no sense
Yep, right on the money.
Same for me rip
I just interned at wells too and didn’t get a return offer. My group only gave out 50%. Shitty feeling.
Really sorry to hear this brother. But no time to lament now. As Alex hormozi says the world does not care. It will never care. But do so much work that is unreasonable for you to not win. Shoot everyone in your network w message and explain you were a strong candidate and outwork every damn mf who sits by lamenting. I hope it works out brother. Stay strong and envision success and try to lean into the law of attraction. Best wishes.
this - get back on the apps, no complaints - just go forward
There are better jobs, with better pay and work life balance. Don’t be pulled into the vortex of fake banking prestige. It’s prestigious because it’s kept behind a very high gate. I’m sure you saw the work is incredibly uninteresting. unless moving logos around for 15hrs is your thing. There is more out there for you, high performer, cares about his/her work. Rejection is Protection, it wasn’t meant for you. Find the place that wants you. As you said round peg in a square hole. Find the round hole, maybe it’s not banking. You’re young and ambitious, there are so many better opportunities out there for you! Just imagine being at a job making comparable pay and having a life after 5pm, or the ability to enjoy your weekends, the same career trajectory with all the benefits. Stay positive.
I appreciate this sentiment, but what other paths are there that offer a similar trajectory or at least comparable? It feels like everything, at least in the niche of finance, is centered around IB being the stepping stone to launch any successful career
There is none tbh. People say this on here to make others feel better. I missed my window 10 years ago and see all my friends in private equity making millions of dollars a year all while saying how horrible it is; yet when I ask them why they don’t quit they don’t have a good answer. I also get told “there’s plenty of ways to make more money with less hours” which simply isn’t true. Finance is the most risk adjusted way to become a multi millionaire. I’d try to find some other way in. I think about it and beat myself up everyday. These people will lie to your face sadly.
This is sound advice. Honestly whenever interns aren’t given return offers the reality is there was a pretty strong consensus that banking or the group just wasn’t a good fit for them. After seeing enough analyst cycles it’s honestly better to not give someone a return offer and give them the school year to figure something else out (judging by LinkedIn they always have landed a solid job), then to give a return offer to someone you know will struggle / not enjoy the job.
Some kids came up with total nonsense, but still managed to present their way into offers. The staffers don't evaluate your excel or ppt.
Makes zero sense given they join next year with zero expectations to speak up and will offer sloppy execution. The way decision-making works in this industry is insane at times.
yall need to get over it, we all face failure in our lives as life is a bumpy road. You could spend all day thinking about how you were unlucky or how things couldve gone differently but theres no point. just accept the facts, learn from it, and start working towards the next goal
Your story hits home because it reminds me so much of myself during my SA stint. I gave it absolutely everything, sometimes to the point of looking haggard and unprepared relative to those who put in a B effort but got their sleep. I got the offer, but barely (a spy told me they debated over me and decided to take a shot on me because they knew I'd work hard).
The good news is, people like you tend to crush FT. You might think that you're entering FT recruiting with some kind of stigma as someone who didnt get the return offer. In reality, it's almost the exact opposite.
The strongest candidates in FT are those with offers, but guesss what: there aren't many of those in FT. The next strongest candidates are people like you: good internship, no offer, and most importantly people who will vouch for you. Bankers trust other bankers. Find 1 or 2 people who will say you did a good job, and they're worth their weight in gold.
I think you'll do well in FT. Get ready for it.
Hi, in the same position with a good internship and some solid references but no return offer
In the interview room, how would this play out?
And how would it play out after? Will they check the references I gave them or will they check others in the group?
Can give some color on this as this happened to me last summer. It really depends on the interviewer honestly, some people really don’t care and it never comes up and some people will absolutely grill you on why you didn’t get a FT offer, I’ve been seen both scenarios happen. I would say you have references but I’ve never really seen people follow through with reaching out to them but maybe that’s something they do behind closed doors.
I would still have a good reason on why you didn’t get a return offer, doesn’t really necessarily have to be true.
Every time I got rejected from a job it was a blessing because something much better was waiting for me down the line that I couldn't see yet. Looking back I'm actually thankful because my life would have sucked if I had gotten what I wanted back then. Very possible you'll land something way better than WF IB in the coming years.
Chin up, I didn't get a full time return offer during my summer and 8 years later made it to PE buyout. Life has swings for everyone.
Can I pm you ?
For sure!
unfortunately it’s a lot less fair and a lot more luck based than you could ever believe. trust me, don’t take it personally for one second. FT recruiting is hard and it sucks but teams are in dire need of juniors so an upgrade is definitely not out of the question. It’s not 2023 anymore
Same situation a year ago with the same reasoning too. Depending on your bank, you have maybe ~1 month of the "log jam" excuse saying "did well on my mid-year report ended off good with my old team, but no official communication yet due to business HR and all that shit. Meantime contact your team and see if you can market yourself like you got a RO that'll help immensely. If they're not assholes they'll be chill with it cuz people get it. Blast everywhere, IB & non-IB (adjacent roles), big and small. Network with people and fuck the WSO advice follow up every 2-3 days if they have a live process. If you land something in the next 3 months, then chill tbh and wait for the next window (1st year lateral, 6-12 months of FT employment), otherwise the big wave ends like October, and then you'll have tinier processes throughout. If you're still out by then, then you gotta be honest - emphasize everything you did right (strong mide-year, etc) and emphasize you got knocked by deprioritizing the final project over live deal work that ramped up the same time and it was an honest mistake you learned from.
Guys, I’m probably too far removed from summer recruiting at this point but am I reading this correctly that some of you are quoting ~50% RO rates?
If so, come on. At a 50% conversion rate this is, by definition, a fucking battleground. Everyone there already cleared the resume screen, interviews, technicals, networking, etc. Half of a group of already highly selected kids is still going home without an offer. That doesn’t suddenly make half the class incompetent.
And some perspective from the other side of the table: when you eventually interview with someone like me, I’m not sitting there thinking, “Hmmmm, but why didn’t JPM/GS/MS love this kid enough three months ago?”
I’m thinking: Oh, you summered at JPM? Cool. What group? What deals did you work on? What did you actually do? Did you learn anything? Can you talk intelligently about it? Would I want you on one of my deals?
That’s basically it.
The market is much bigger than whatever group decided your fate during a 10-week internship. Banks recruit full-time. Groups have unexpected needs. People leave. Deals pick up.
I see a never-ending flow of new analysts coming in throughout the year. Seats open up all the time as people move. The system is not static, and it’s definitely not as closed as it feels when you’re on the outside looking in.
After 10+ years of this shit, one thing I’ve learned is that careers are ridiculously long and surprisingly nonlinear. I’ve had things I desperately wanted not work out and ended up somewhere better. I’ve also had things I thought were huge wins turn out to be irrelevant a few years later.
So be pissed for a weekend. You earned that.
Then put the internship on the resume and start recruiting.
You didn’t spend the summer failing to get a return offer. You spent the summer getting 10 weeks of deal experience at a bank that somebody else can now hire you for.
That’s an asset. Go sell it.
I know this is late but sorry to hear. This happened to me last summer at a top MM, only one out of my class to not get a return. To be honest, senior year was awful, I finally landed a job at a boutique IB (less than 15 person shop) in the spring but it was absolute hell and I still have dark days often as I’m looking to lateral out as fast as I can.
I got told I was doing very well during my feedback session during midpoints as well. Still can’t really articulate a reason I didn’t get an offer. It’s unfortunately way more arbitrary and political than people will admit when it comes to offer decisions. A lot of things are out of your control, the personalities of the juniors you work with (didn’t fuck with one of my analysts/associates) and how much each deal team expects from you.
I always knew I wanted to do IB so I kept applying and networking until somebody finally said yes. You will run into assholes who grill you about why you didn’t get a return offer, but just get your story down and do the best you can. Things work out eventually but it may take some time.
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