Right now, I am a second-year analyst (associate in ER title, technically) on an extremely overworked yet non-top II team at a BB.
It’s not a pleasant seat; the comp has been very mediocre, the progression/exposure to sales and investors and path to coverage is not looking good, my hours are atrocious, and I’m already starting to find the work thankless and repetitive. Most of the learning I’ve done in modeling and finance has been in my independent time, since, as the most junior one on a team uninvested in my development, I haven’t been given any “on the job” education in anything too technical.
A lot of this has made me question whether ER is for me though, admittedly, I’m sure my impression has been affected by my experience on my team.
I first tried to switch ER groups at my own shop, but was unsuccessful, as there are no groups looking for a new junior. I then made a pretty good faith attempt to recruit externally for IB — looking for a change — and would have a few initial rounds at a few shops (obtained through cold reach-outs) before, ultimately, getting the “we like you but don’t have seat a open, so stay in touch.” This has all left me with the sense that the lateral market isn’t a dependable option right now. I also began a buyside recruitment process way too early (my mistake) and wasn’t prepared for the seven interview rounds + multiple modeling tests… that’s a story for another day, lol, but cemented the idea that this path would require a lot of work if I wanted to pursue it, and the investment-to-odds of landing ratio is discouraging. This is especially true given that virtually all of my technical learning has been/has needed to be in my (limited) free time.
I’m approaching the two year mark, and don’t feel like my career is moving forward here, nor do I have any visibility into the near-term feasibility of a constructive jump. I could get into why (mainly optionality/training/career trajectory), but I’m leaning towards IB as a next step.
Do you all think that, at this point, going back to school for a clean reset is my best option, assuming it is financially feasible albeit not ideal?
Would appreciate any advice.
At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? With two dictators playing hardball with tariffs???
Would get MBA. Only if it’s HBS though
so basically you're not getting an MBA
Just wait another year to lateral into IB / new ER seat / Buyside when the market gets better.
Totally understand where you're coming from. Have experienced most of what you went through (worst was recruiting for LO while being the only associate on the team, never want to experience that ever in my life). I think now would probably be best for you to do some soul-searching to figure out what the next logical move should be.
Lateral to another team: If you really want to stay on the SS and work yourself up the ladder, I would say this would be your best bet (especially if you don't like your team / situation you are in). However you really should do some diligence on the other teams dynamic. The biggest thing that's deterred me from this is knowing research across the entire street is 99% the same. We look at the same companies, talk to the same IR teams, model almost the same. The biggest unknown is your hypothetical new analyst. They could be better than your current analyst. But chances are they have similar faults to your current analyst.
IB: Is this something you really want to do? The hours, stress, BS, and everything bad about research will almost be the same in IB except you get paid more. But if you thought you were getting worked in ER, I'm sure you know you'll get worked even more in IB. So naturally this is already something I would advise against on doing.
Buyside Recruiting: BS recruiting is an absolute joke. 7+ interviews in the middle of the day, multiple modeling exams, and never ending stress on balancing work and recruiting. Again, you have to ask yourself if you really love investing / public markets in order to put yourself through this. I really believe in the fact LO's are not going to be the "cushy" jobs we once all thought they were. My guiding principle belief for this is "Why would an LP waste giving a mutual fund $X to have the team (most of the time) underperform the market and make me pay for their underperformance?".
MBA: I think an MBA should only be your absolute last case scenario. God forbid you get let go or something similar, an MBA should only be pursued on your own if this happens. Unless you love networking and paying $200k a year for that then sure go ahead. But if I were to get an MBA, I want my company to pay at least a majority of it.
In the end, it's up to you to figure out what exactly you want to pursue. Just based on what you've given it sounds like you do like SS ER but your current team is hindering that enjoyment. Or perhaps now is a good time to see where you personally want to be in the next 5 years. Happy to chat about this as I'm going through a very similar situation.
This is an incredibly helpful comment. I appreciate it. I would love to discuss more, as I think that you “get it.”
A few initial thoughts:
1. It’s just so hard for me to tell whether I’d like SS ER on a team with a better culture. On one hand, I like the idea of doing more “meaningful” work at a more junior level, and I think public markets are interesting to analyze and opine on. On the other hand, the sense I’ve gotten is that it’s 80% of the hours/stress/personalities of IB for 60% of the pay/exits/promotion track … and I’m a bit jaded from working for one rather extreme MD who has “life and death” over my day-to-day. It’s been a horrific experience.
2. The sense I get is that IB has a lot of upside, both in terms of lockstep internal promotion/pay and in terms of exits to buyside or corporate. The other sense I get, having of friends in IB, is that 1) there are some IB groups (sponsors, DCM/ECM, some MM groups) that are more lax than ER and have better pay/promotion (albeit fewer exits), and 2) you can do IB for a couple years and dip for greener pastures, whereas in ER … much harder, especially as it is unclear when the lateral market will recover.
3. My current seat is hard to take. I feel like I am relegated to the tasks nobody else wants to do, and, as such, I am only learning on my own time. In addition, I am treated so poorly that the DOR has had to berate my MD multiple times over it as to avoid liability (none of his other first years have made it more than a short period). The pay hasn’t been great, the hours are extreme at times, and toxic is an understatement for the culture. I just cannot see any reason to stay longer than absolutely necessary. The idea of staying indefinitely and taking my sweet time just waiting for the market to change is just so painful.
4. I am fortunate in that I come from a decent family financial position. I’m incredibly grateful for this. It means that family would be able to help out with an MBA; I wouldn’t be earning during that time and might lose basically all of my savings, but probably would not need to go into debt.
Happy to chat, I've had to play as a my own therapist to sort all this out.
I think you know pretty well that your next move is going to be thought out. You don't sound like a brash person who's making a decision based on a short term reaction to something. For about a year now I've noticed more associates voicing their opinions on research and how it's literally almost not worth it to do more than 2 years and leave to do something else. In a sense I feel happy to see this, as it reaffirms my own observations that research has (or was already) losing it's appeal for those not interested in transitioning to the BS. Best thing to do now is to try and coast, start looking for jobs that will allow you to live, and reach out to people on LinkedIn.
OP you sound like a bit of a loser. “Effort to odds ratio” seem low… wtf does that even mean. The real winners who make it to the buy-side will grind to the bone just in the hopes of landing a first round. They enjoy the difficulty because they love investing. Enjoy every case study because you learn more. Those are the people that win… not this woe is me crap.
Never said woe is me. Happy to grind as hard as anyone. Have been grinding as hard as anyone. I’ve tried switching teams, lateral recruitment, and a gruelling buyside process. Not going to give up.
Just want to allocate my effort in a way with positive risk-reward.
Who is to say that getting an MBA is not a path that can lead to great places?
"Enjoy every case study because you learn more", nah dude if anyone is a bit of a loser it's not OP.
I don’t mind grinding on case studies at all. Or studying for the GMAT. Just trying to figure out which of the two I should prioritize. I want to grind hard, just want to allocate the grind productively.
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