Would appreciate some advice

Hey guys. I'm a sophomore at a non-target who has been recruiting for IB SA 24 over the past few months. I've been working really hard at the process and have probably done ~50+ networking calls at this point. I've had the chance to interview at around 6 or 7 firms, only getting one super day out of them all and not passing any of the other first rounds. I know my technicals really well, but I'm just not the most likable guy. I've never been super chatty or anything like that (this process has definitely been a great learning experience, I've learned some valuable people skills that think will help me a ton going forward). I also wasn't confident in the past going into interviews, so I often read off scripts and stared at my notes in Zoom calls, which probably got me dinged many times. 

I've had a lot of time to reflect, so going forward, I plan to scrap a lot of my bad habits, but I can't get over the fact that I created so many opportunities for myself and fumbled it all. I know the past is the past, but I don't think I'll have many more chances. Just a few more, maybe a couple interviews at best.

I have sort of accepted that I'm not going to break into banking, but I've been really depressed over the fact that not only will I likely be walking away with no offer, but that I threw away my sophomore year, basically pushed away my girlfriend and most of my friends I made during freshman year, and my physical health has really suffered. I haven't been eating or sleeping. 

I'm the type of kid that goes all in when I do things. If I decide I want something, I'll put everything I have into it. It's a good work ethic, but it's a super unhealthy mindset because everything I do always ends up being all or nothing and affects everything else in my life. In high school, I created a startup that ended up being pretty rewarding financially, but I dropped everything to make that happen. I graduated with a 3.1 GPA and have like 2 friends from high school that I still talk to. While I walked away from that startup experience with a ton of money, I always think back to how different things could've been if I didn't go down that path and made the sacrifices that I did. It's honestly my biggest regret. Now, I feel that I replicated the exact mistake I made in high school, just this time I'm walking away with nothing. 

It'll take a miracle for banking to work out. I still have some energy in me to keep going but not much. I don't really have any intentions behind this post... mainly to vent I guess. Not looking for sympathy or anything-I get shit happens in life and an internship is far from the end of the world, but man I wish things would've worked out.

I'm curious. How common is it for people who commit to the process as much as I did to not end up making it? I have friends who put in one-tenth the effort I put in and are landing offers left and right. I feel like a dumbass. 

 

Your back is against the wall right now. How you react within the small time frame you have can make or break your future. You’ve worked hard. Probably harder than a lot of people around you. But hard work doesn’t mean a thing without unrelenting determination. Because of the pitfalls you encountered, your determination is like a dwindling candle fading into obscurity. But never forget that you’re not the candle. You’re the flame that lights that bitch.

It’s not too late for you. I know many people who got offers late October for BB. The rate that you’re going at right now, you’re almost there. One networking call away. One interview away. All you need to do is click with one. I feel like I’m on your same boat. I missed a lot of opportunities due to lack of preparedness. And although there are those who think I’m finished, I say to them, I choose when to hang up the gloves and I will rather fail 1000 times over than concede. If I feel in my heart that things will work out for me, I know for certain things will work out for you. Keep your head up brother.

 

Thanks man. This really means a lot to me. I really do appreciate it.

I’m to keep working at it and come back to this thread when I land something.

Hopefully everything is going well on your end.

 
Most Helpful

Agreed with the comments above -- just keep pushing onwards and don't give up. The hardest part about recruiting as a non-target (at least from my experience) is getting the opportunity to even interview. You've broken that barrier and have gotten 6+ interviews which means that up till now you've been doing something correctly. Just because none of those have converted yet doesn't mean that you should give up trying for IB. There are a lot of banks out there that are still recruiting; you might not end up at the one you ultimately wanted for the summer (like an EB or top BB), but if you keep pushing you can maximize your chances of landing something -- remember, its still April and despite recruiting being so accelerated, it doesn't end until late summer / early fall. Just keep shooting for the stars and you'll land in the clouds. This might be survivorship basis but I have never seen anyone from a non-target who wanted banking, went ALL-IN (be honest with yourself, are you really going all-in? or is there more you could do) and NOT converted an IB offer. 

Take this weekend off, clear your mind, build your confidence backup and hop back onto the recruiting grind if its really what you want. Start plotting out the firms that are still recruiting / are about to launch their process, and start networking with the bankers there. Do exactly what you were doing before and execute another batch of calls to get into those first rounds.

Once you're in those first rounds (I'm sure you'll get at least 1 more chance), work on what you think needs improvement. It sounds like the interviews are where you get tripped up and honestly everyone has that issue. A lot of people has said this before me but an interview is a combination of preparation and luck. You can't control luck but you can control the way you prepare. 

Remember that an interview, contrary to popular believe, is less a conversation and more of a sales pitch. Might get monkey sh*t for this but at the end of the day, you're selling yourself as an potential asset to the firm you're trying to break into. I'm personally not amazing at conversation (I don't golf, I don't watch football, I haven't traveled anywhere notable in my life) and when I was recruiting a few years back, the "conversation" and "fit" portion of the interview gave me a lot of anxiety. But the important thing is to realize that you don't need to be "chatty" or have amazing "people skills" (a lot of people in banking are awkward as fck),to do well in an interview. Presence, fit and to some level "people skills" can be manufactured through proper interview preparation. 

Here is the interview prep guide for people who think they are socially awkward or are not great at conversation (you guys probably are great, you just think your not but whatever) -- prep 2 categories of things:

Soft Skills:

  • Remember to display confidence when you hop on the phone or interview room (seems like you are doing that just fine given you've managed to get interviews through networking calls)
    • Way to display confidence is just to reduce filler words and talk louder -- don't end your sentences with a high pitch, control the melody in your voice and add tonality
    • A stutter here and there is fine, but reduce them if that is your issue -- unless you have a stuttering condition, people usually stutter when they don't know the answer to something or are not confident in the subject they are talking about -- that can be fixed with prep (next section)
  • Remember to shake the interviewers hands when you step in the room (stand up to shake)
  • Remember to sit up straight and maintain strong eye contact (but not too strong, break contact once every 4-5 seconds and look right back)
  • Nod your head a few times when the interviewer is speaking and go "MHM" "MHM" BUT DON'T OVERDO IT

Hard Skills - Actual Interview Prep (Behavioral):

I realized very early on that I was TRASH at speaking off the top of my head in stressful situations (like interviews) -- if I get a question that I don't know, I will totally blank out and start stuttering while giving one word answers. This issue happens a lot more with behavioral questions than technical given that there isn't a "right" answer and its heavily experience based. 

What you need to remember is that IT IS OKAY TO SCRIPT YOUR ANSWERS. But the catch is, you can't be caught reading off it. I would type word-for-word, your answers to some of the most common behavioral questions (tell me about yourself, tell me about a time you failed, tell me about your experience at x firm) and read them aloud again and again and again until its engrained into your memory. Once you can recite the answer forward and backward without stuttering, I would layer on emotions and tonality onto the answer. Trust me, scripted answers only sound scripted when you haven't practiced the script enough. Famous actors, keynote speakers, presidents and your future MDs on calls are probably all scripted to an extent, but none of them sound scripted because they practiced their script so much it comes out natural. 

Make sure to prep the following behaviorals in a storytelling fashion:

  • Tell me about a time you succeeded
  • Tell me about a time you failed
  • Tell me about your 3 strengths and 3 weaknesses
  • Tell me about a time you worked on a team 

Prep these and commit them to heart -- every behavioral interview and conversation you are going to have is going to be centered around some variation of these 4 topics. Your interviewer might ask you this directly or in another way, but prepping these will build a strong foundation for you prior to stepping into an interview. Treat yourself like a alchemist -- those 4 answers above are different ingredients and once you have them readily available, you can easily mix them together easily to create potions that will solve your issue. Its about compiling a library of stories in the back of your head that you can easily pull to generate conversations during interviews and come off as "chatty".

After an interview, your interviewers will step in a room to discuss you and why they think you should advance / be extended an offer. On the round table, they will ask "so brad, why do you like JumboFelipe? What about him made him stand out?" -- remember, it is your job to control the narrative post interview. Do not let your interviewer draw his own conclusions about you based on your answers but EMBED those elements into your answer and spoon feed them to your interviewer. Don't say "oh a time when I succeeded was when I opened a lemonade stand and it made money" -- say "oh a time when I succeeded was back in freshmen year where I worked really hard to open a lemonade stand. At first it was difficult to run because I needed to learn how to operate a buisness like that, but I was proactive and looked on google and sht and eventually I got the hang of it, this experience really taught me how to balance multiple things at once and balance ideas" (obviously BS / strawman answer but you get the point). This answer has certain keywords in there that PRIMES your interviewer instantly -- it spoon feeds him that you are 1. hardworking 2. proactive, 3. good at research 4. can balance different things and 5. the story in itself shows that you have an entrepreneurial / scrappy spirit. 

My VP is hounding me for comments right now so I gotta duce out but hope this was helpful. As a fellow socially awkward person whos not chatty and bad at conversation, I can say this was what helped me a lot. 80% of the interview is done before the interview, 15% is execution and 5% is luck.  

 

Dude, I really appreciate this post. Probably some of the best advice I've been given. 

I agree, I think that the interview opportunities I've been able to create a show that it'd doable, I just need to keep pushing. And the interview tips are really helpful. I think in the past, I've been treating it more like a test I just have to pass. I plan on being more direct, giving fewer cookie-cutter bullshit answers, and working hard to sell myself.

Thank you for taking the time out of your day to write this man. 

 

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