Should I sell my soul to the devil to go to college?
Hey guys!
I am a high school senior looking to go to college next year, majoring in Finance, and hopefully, end up in Investment Banking. UW Madison is a decent school for this, and it’s at the top of my list. I visited the school and love it, and I’m certain it would be a good fit for me. However, I have a couple questions/ concerns.
Attending UW Madison (from OOS) will cost me a lot. Around 51-53k a year. My parents will try to help me with half of it, leaving me with 104-106k in debt at the end of it. Is this worth it? I love the school, and it’s the best one I got into as a prospect for Investment Banking, which is heavy on “prestige” and colleges that rank highly. My other options are Virginia Tech (mediocre business school, but I also loved the campus, leaves me around 75k in debt), Miami in Ohio (not as good as UW for investment banking, but the second best school I got into. Leaves me around 80k in debt, haven’t visited), and Pitt (in between Miami and Virginia Tech as far as IB prospects, the cheapest with about 69k in debt, visited and wasn’t too fond of the campus but could make it work).
As I understand it, I’m kind of screwed. I have one more shot in the fact that I applied for a scholarship for the business program, and I think I have a chance to earn some aid, but I’m not sure how much it will be. UW is my best shot (as I understand it) for IB, but for 100k+ of debt, it doesn’t “guarentee” me a place like other top school might. If I do take on the debt, and end up not making it into IB, or switch majors, or decide IB isn’t for me, I’m also screwed.
What would you guys do if you were in my place?
Damn, all those options seem really expensive for what they are. Have you applied to FAFSA?
Yeah I have, my father makes around 120K a year, but they don’t take into account the fact that I have six brothers and sisters, one of which is in college, and three of which have special needs leading to increased education and medical costs. On paper, we look upper-middle class, but in reality, we’re not doing as hot. Long story short, I got nothing from FAFSA, except like a $3,500 subsidized loan.
Man, I remember those FAFSA days in school. That's when you quickly find out that your parents still being married is a "penalty" against you. Technically I came from a two-income household but I came from humble beginnings and total income when I was a freshman was less than 80K. No matter though, it was always higher than all your classmates from single-mom homes. I basically got nothing from FAFSA because even though I desperately needed it, no way my two parents income on paper could ever show more need than a single income household.
I feel for you, best of luck.
Wow that sounds like a lot of challenges. Props for getting this far.
Go to community college first for a year or two and then transfer in to somewhere decent. Don’t take out high five figures for an “okay” public school, that’s ridiculous. If you presented this story to me, along with a grinder attitude and solid grades, I’d push to hire you for an internship or fulltime.
Although $50k/year is quite a bit, I think you'll regret not attending the best school into which you were granted admission. In the grand scheme of life, $100k is not going to matter, especially if you work your ass off in school and make use of the opportunity to get a good degree.
It's almost impossible for a kid your age to be sure of what you want to do career-wise, so try not to worry yourself that the decision you make today or tomorrow will be concrete and forever-lasting. Figuring out what you want in life takes a hell of a lot of time and learning, and you're just beginning your journey. Enjoy it and work hard, but never convince yourself that you must keep doing something that makes you miserable/unhappy just because that's what you've done historically.
Good luck, fellow Riff Raff fan.
Damn, you’re the first person to catch that reference. Thanks for the advice though, it means a lot. That is a good point, I don’t want to make a decision I’ll regret later.
You're certainly welcome, bud. Best of luck to you.
Personally, I think Virgina Tech might be the better option. They have some pretty solid student orgs that manage endowement money which creates good networking opportunities. Plus proximity wise you will be closer to NYC for networking purposes plus you will save yourself 25k in debt.
It might be easy to say that debt doesn't matter cause you make a lot of money at WS - but let's remember WS isn't guaranteed and once you're there you're not guaranteed a spot forever. You will not pay down that 100K in your two years in banking most likely so you need to be rational and find ways to minimize the debt if you can. That's my thinking at least. I went to a state school and got my way to WS but if that hadn't worked out my debt wouldn't be crushing. Just my thoughts.
Also - keep in mind you can always try and trasnfer to a target school that costs a similar amount after 1 or 2 years wherever you go.
People typically try to downplay the significance of six figure debt but really, paying it off is HARD. I know plenty of folks who made similar plans but life happened and years later they're still cutting checks to Sallie Mae. Doesn't mean it isn't worth it, but if you don't get the right job, change your mind about Finance, or end up having to get on a government repay program, you will have that debt balance hanging over you for a lot longer than you were planning. If you don't get that IBD gig, what's your contingency? What if you want an MBA or graduate degree down the line?
For the schools you're interested in, the costs all seem outrageous. I'd pick VA Tech only because it's the cheapest and you enjoyed your visit.
Agree. I've never encountered a VA Tech grad who isn't extremely competent and hard working. Wells and BofA recruit there for their Charlotte offices, the weather is way better than what you'll deal with in Wisconsin, and from the sounds of things, you'll have less debt. As for the business school being mediocre, why not major in computer science/engineering and take a minor in econ? If you decide you don't want to do banking, you'll have a zillion other doors open to you, and if you do decide to pursue banking, no one's going to doubt the quantitative abilities of a STEM grad from a top engineering school like VA Tech.
I looked at doing this, and thought about CS before Finance. I like Finance a lot better, and to be honest, I kind of suck at coding. I’m sure CS isn’t 100% about coding, but I’m not sure how well I would do with it. That being said, I am heavily considering VT, I’ve never meet anyone who went there that hasn’t completely loved it.
Right on the money.
OP, what state are you from? I'm a little surprised that there isn't an in-state public school that you could attend for much cheaper.
If not, go for Tech--I don't think UW is worth $30k more (actually $60k more, once you factor in what your parents are paying). You'll have fun and there is OCR for Charlotte IBD.
If you aren't into CS, look into fields like systems engineering or operations research. While Pamplin at VT isn't a bad program, the engineering school is actually top notch and the students are of a higher caliber--plus you have more optionality, like FellowTraveler said. If you can maintain a solid GPA in engineering, I imagine it would also make you a stronger candidate for b-school in the future.
For what it's worth, I'd go VT too if Wisco can't come through with more financial support.
What state are you from? I'll likely get MS for this but here is my 2c.
I'd be okay with debt for a top target but 100k+ of debt out of graduation will hinder a lot of your decisions afterwards. I'd either take a gap year (do something interesting) and apply to more targets or attend CC for a year (get good grades, be involved, save $, take gen ed credits) then transfer.
I was in your shoes many years ago. Went with the low cost option, looking back it wouldve been easier to suck it up and go the CC route. As much as your parents would like to help, you have 6 siblings so gotta fly solo on this one.
I'll also add that eventually you'll want to go to grad school, adding 100-250k in debt on your tab. Maybe you'll graduate and live in NY or SF, you wont be saving as much as you think you will. You want optionality/flexibility/mobility in your early career, debt doesnt allow you to do that. Good luck.
I honestly agree with you. CC sounds the best. $100k is a lot, and you CAN transfer if you put your mind to it.
I'm going to propose another side for OP. CC is a pretty terrible option, and don't understand why people on here recommend it.
Transferring into your top targets as a Sophomore is your only bet for IB recruiting (this isn't a guarantee with how accelerated it's been getting these past couple years). I don't know how OP did in high-school but to transfer with 30 credit hours means your high school GPA, SAT will matter much more than what you did in CC. So OP should have an idea of his chances already based on his HS stats. If you don't make the cut as a Sophomore transfer then you're pretty much screwed and will probably resort to transferring as a Junior in which you have missed recruiting, and are against people who have been there since day 1 networking with professors as well as established themselves in clubs, etc.
Quality post here. I don’t understand why CC is glorified on here. And people talk about transferring to top target like HYPSM afterwards. They don’t realize how hard that shit actually is and the few spots available at the top schools often go to people from other top schools. Yeah if you want to save money sure do it, but it kind of hurts your chances for IBD.
Hot take, if you spend over $125K on UG (regardless of where you got the money from) and didn't go to an Ivy, ya done goofed. Go to an in-state school or at least hit up CC with guaranteed transfers to larger places.
This. I’m all in favor of suffering through debt if you get into a top school (Ivy or equivalent), but University of Wisconsin doesn’t cut it. Just save money now and aim to get into a better grad school later on
go community college to UVA and spend 3 years at UVA to get on the recruiting cycle but u need good grades, this imo is best option if your from VA
Forgot to mention, I’m in Maryland. Didn’t apply to UMD because I’ve grown up near there my whole life, and wanted to branch out (stupid decision I know). I would prefer not to go to CC, in that case I’d probably just attend VTech, or even WVU which leaves me only around 40K in debt total.
Go to AACC (literally the best community college in the country) or MCC for two years, guaranteed admission to any MD state school with an associate's degree (source I'm from MD and my sister did this). I understand not wanting to go to an in-state school, but if you're looking for branching out experiences VTech and WVU are basically just bigger versions of UMD. My personal opinion having been to both campuses multiple times in college, WVU is a pretty great party school and VTech is a slightly better education but both are in the middle of nowhere, with the added downside that they are hours farther from DC/Baltimore/NOVA where you're likely going to do internships. Again, my two cents with the acknowledgement that I am biased towards MD.
Go the Community college route for two years. This route enables you to achieve a top GPA (join honors programs) and work at the same time. I decided to go this route (not because of my financial position but because I was a shit high school student) and got an IB internship with exposure to ample deal flow with a local boutique while at the same time solidifying a top GPA.
In aggregate I have saved thousands of dollars and have gone from a 2.6 high school GPA to now transferring to a Top 10 B-school.
If you decide this route use it to take accounting and math courses. These courses tend to transfer consistently to solid schools.
Again, I graduated high school with the vision I'd be a welder or in the coast guard. I went from a 2.6 high school GPA to receiving considerable academic scholarships from great schools for transfer. This route is extremely under appreciated and should be considered, especially in your situation.
What the F bro? Dude take on the LEAST amount of debt. Wall Street is NOT guaranteed. Un-dischargeable debt on the other hand is guaranteed.
I had a friend who went to CUNY ($7k/year) and now works at a hedge fund... why would you take on $70k of debt to go to PITT?
Great story, brah.
You could do a residency program for a year and then pay in-state tuition. I had a few friends do that. It can save you like 50k+, but obviously you would have to stay an extra year. Though this would give you extra time to prep and maybe do multiple IB internships. You could also take a RA position in the dorms for a year or 2 (usually comes with like 5k, a full meal plan and a single room). If you did both these things, you could escape with minimal debt.
I went the RA route.....I was the WORST RA ever. As long as you weren't making things miserable for other residents I didn't really care what you did.
I'm actually very shocked I even got an RA position, but they must've been light on applicants. This was years ago, but I think I got $2.5k, free single room, food plan and some other small benefits. You do trade a few weekends a semester of staying in, but I had a gf so it made that much easier and it was definitely worth it for the $ I saved. I also think being an RA added to my resume and interviews back in the day when I had 1 crappy internship.
I used to be someone that would say don't go to community college, especially if you want to work on Wall Street. However, I have come across a few people that have gone to community to colleges, crushed it their freshman year, and then transferred to some of the best programs in the country. One kid that comes to mind actually ended up going to PJT.
At the end of day I still think grit is the most important characteristic of getting a job on Wall Street (assuming grades are taken care of).
+SB I saw quite a few resumes with CC 1 year, Columbia, Berkeley, Harvard, Cornell, UCLA transfer.
Go to VT and transfer to Georgetown or something.
Haven't read all the responses, but I'll say this. The difference between ~$70k in student debt and ~$100k in student debt is absolutely meaningless when viewed in the context of your entire career. Make the big bets early. You'll be much happier that you did.
just go to a good state school and network like hell to get the job. it works. I go to a state school, and I have a couple of good hits for bulge bracket banks for junior year. Don't stress to much about it.
+SB Solid advice here! State school 3.7+ >>>>>>>= Cornell 2.0 (not engineering)
The US educational system is such a joke, really incredible. In Europe you pay 0-1k tuition per year in many countries and you still end up at GS TMT in London...
Ur right
Lol enjoy your no research output and 0% gdp growth
Is ROTC an option? Go to school for free and recruit as a veteran. You'll have a lot of stories to tell, and will reasonably be able to recruit well. BBs love vets, especially Navy Officers. Also you'll be in great shape. Just saying, it never hurts to be in great shape.
Also for all you vets out there, thank you for your service.
this is true. However, when you have been banking for a few years though, you will more than likely lose that muscle.
For a finance degree? Community College.
If you were going technical discipline, would consider VT.
I agree with the others. Take on the least debt possible at this time.
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