Short and sweet: For the finance industry ONLY, what’s your pick for competent jerks versus lovable fools (for someone you have to work with)? And the $50 follow-up q: Which type are you personally (binary question here folks)?
I’m open to statement defenses, but lets try to avoid beating around the bush by talking about 'building a balanced team', 'trying to reform the jerks', etc.
I’m sure we’ve all read HBS papers on this topic or seen other polls, but I want to focus this directly on the finance industry.
To get the discussion started, I’ll pick working with competent jerks – I want the opportunity to learn from the work they’re doing, I don’t want to have to provide rudimentary support and/or cover up for their mistakes, and I think you can forgive personality issues if the work speaks for itself. I am on the competent jerk side.
Lovable fools, currently working with these type in my team and enjoy every bit of it. I am on the competent jerk side.
Working with jerks sucks, i'd rather work with the fools. I am an incompetent jerk, a bad combo.
I think the definition depends a little on your perspective.
First, a fool is never loveable if you depend on them. They're wasting my money and/or wasting my time. Unless they are a salesperson who generates a lot of revenue. At that point, they are an idiot who produces. I love them because they produce, in spite of them being an idiot, not because of it.
Second, who is considered a 'jerk' is in the eye of the beholder. If you are incompetent, you might think someone is a jerk, even when they're only telling the truth.
For me, people who are good at their job think I'm generally a likeable guy, but those who aren't, think I'm a major asshole. It has little to do with who I actually am. It only has to do with how I react to how others are doing.
I consider myself a likeable asshole, for what it's worth.
Nailed it.
^ facepalm
I did sales for a while and I totally agree with Mr. Fuld about teams. My choice is to work close to a lovable fool not directly with. Competent Jerks get the job done. If the Fools only contribute to a team that maybe slightly affects my bonus, I don't think is a big deal. But overall, I think Competent Jerks are better workmates. Much easier to understand their rational and manage.
I did like to go out too, and again Competent Jerks are much more helpful in this realm as well. So, I think they are the winners.
I am definitely more of a jerk then a fool.
Love the thread pic.
I'll take either one to be honest...it's the incompetent jerks that should be given a one-way ticket to hell (and of course the bar for competence is high...like, really really high).
Personally, I will only tolerate jerks who I'm 100% convinced are more competent than I am.
This. And also what Dick Fuld said.
To all those who're saying that you'd prefer a competent jerk, either you're sorely mistaken or incredibly naive. Imagine how this is gonna play out:
You make a mistake, the competent jerk catches it and by virtue of his nature, will give you shit for it. To top it all, you'll have to suffer ("tolerate") the humiliation because you KNOW the jerk is right. Bruised ego, much? Sure, you'll try to "learn from your mistake" the first couple of times, but when the jerk reams you out six times in a day, either you're gonna wanna punch his face in or bang yours against a wall.
To answer OP's question, I'll take lovable fools as long as they're fun after office. I'm at the bottom of the totem pole anyways so needn't worry about wasted resources.
I prefer befriending and getting the loyalty of competent jerks.
-They always make you bring in your A game -Most of the time, they know what they want and how to get it. Even if you're just 'coasting' your career, their decisiveness in everyday life rubs into your own unconscious success.
Obviously both types can be insufferable at a certain point but hanging out with wolves make you sharper than hanging out with sheep who get slaughtered when shit hits the fan.
Work under lovable fools; manage competent jerks.
I am a lovable fool and like to work with them. It makes me look less incompetent.
great photo i want that shirt
Depends on the definition of 'CJ' and 'LF'.....
If you define CJ as someone who is an absolute ace at everything, but a freakin' a%&hole and 'LF' is a great guy, liked by everyone and 'pretty good' at his job but nowhere near as good as CJ, then I think most people will take LF any day of the week.
In investment banking specifically, this question becomes a bit tougher to answer. The reason is that CJ will tend to excel at the lower levels but then stumble mightily when it comes time for client interaction.
Why does this topic keep coming up on AspergerOasis?
Truth is, you want to work with competent people who aren't jerks. Fit matters, and I see little point in answering your question. Don't think in terms of false dichotomies. Sometimes people set up this fake "asshole vs wimp" conflict in their mind, and then do stupid things. First because they think there's only one of two ways for them to act and second because they treat people one of only two ways.
Do a good job and be cool.
As long as they're not Jerks AND incompetent I could deal with either.
I think LJ's are a bigger fucking pain. You can't trust them to do anything right. This creates more work for you since you have to spend time fixing their work or just not let them do anything important. If you try to talk to them about this, they have look on their face like a dog that just got kicked. At least a CJ gets the job done, though listening can be an issue at times.
But honestly you should be getting both compentence and loveableness where you work given how deep the talent pool is nowadays.
I'd rather work with competent jerks. Keeps you competitive because you know they're going to call you out if you mess up.
Lf all the way. CJ have the potential to be way more negative than can be be handled. Also, I am assuming base level knowledge for LF and a regular work week. Personalities are way more important at 70 plus hours.
What exactly you are doing matters. I'm assuming the jerk/fool is only with regard to their day-to-day behavior and not propensity to screw you at the end of the year. In IB, probably the fool, assuming their boss/client isn't a competent jerk that makes, them, and by extension you, iterate everything more because it is shit. For a markets role, probably the competent jerk, they'll make money and you don't really have to work for them, just with them. PE more of a toss up, mostly depends on if you care about long-run performance or lifestyle, which will depend on the career path at your fund.
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