Israel or Hamas
Curious where people on this forum stand, do you support Israel or Hamas in this war? Mainstream news seems to be relatively balanced but more supportive of Israel, thoughts?
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Did you really just ask if people support Israel or a U.S. designated terrorist group who in their core documents calls for the deaths of all Jews across the world? You’re comparing the only democracy in the Middle East to a terrorist organization. Yes, Israel’s not perfect but don’t try to make this comparison
Why not? Both sides deliberately target children, and they both have expressed genocidal desires. They deserve each other
Israel 110%.
Israel, not even a question. IMO the US shouldn't be involved in any capacity beyond retrieving the US hostages (Biden giving Hamas $100m is a pathetic cave but unsurprising given who he is). I don't morally agree with how Israel's been choosing to deal with Hamas/Gaza but America isn't the Middle East police and in reality I don't give any more thought to Palestinians and their quality of life than I would Liberians or Kyrgyz (and neither would most of the people marching if media didn't tell them to feel XYZ). Not my country, not my neighbor, not my culture, not of any economic value, definitely not my ally - i.e. not my problem. Plus they were celebrating in the streets after 9/11 so frankly I won't lose any sleep regardless of what happens considering they're the ones who struck first and committed a list of war crimes longer than the last deal deck I worked on should even a fraction of what's being reported be true.
Israel's military is top 5 in the world (they don't need the US to step in) and has fought & won multiple conflicts on multiple fronts. Hamas decided to rape & mass murder the cubs of the biggest, meanest bear in the forest (a cornered one when you realize it's already surrounded on all sides by non-friendlies) and are now crying out to the rest of the world as mama bear turns around to tear them apart. All while they use their own women and children as human shields, deliberately storing their weapons and military bases underneath schools, hospitals, etc. If the Israelis don't wipe out Hamas, the Palestinians should wizen up and do it themselves because that organization is doing them no favors.
Fuck Around and Find Out.
*Note: This is just a summary of my personal feelings on the matter. I'm not ignoring the deeper details of "how did this attack even happen w/o being detected" and all the other interesting theories, discussions, historical details that tie into this because obviously there's a lot more. Supporters of both sides are guilty or propagating numerous half truths and/or outright lies in the past couple weeks across social media, such is the fog of 5th generational warfare in the digital age. But I don't feel like writing a dissertation on a conflict that I want no part of in the first place.
Actually those were just...sand n-words who were asked by a camera-crew (why the fuck was a camera crew aware of 9/11 AS it happened? this is before smart phones) to dance in exchange for...literally cake which people don't usually have, and were told a soccer team had just won some big tournement. The giveaway? So for 1 thing, why the fuck would a camera crew be present in the street AS this was happening? Secondly, the guy in the black shirt handing out cake was wearing a gold chain.
MUSLIMS. DON"T. WEAR. GOLD. It's a sign of FEMININITY. If I'm supposed to believe that the religion of boombambing is so homophobic they throw homosexuals off their (1 story) buildings (which Iranians do frankly), why is this dude running around in a gold chain ON CAMERA WHICH SOMEHOW HAD A LIVE FEED TO FAUX NEWS ON THE DAY OF 9/11(????why??? Why is Fox on the ground in Palestine on 9/11? Do they live there?)
Seriously? Why? Read the Clean Break memo. The only people who claim to have profited from this attack on MY country are Bibi Netenyahu and Larry Silver. Look it up. FOR DECADES the LIkud have said that, quote, "Israel benefited from 9/11!". And don't forget those "art students"
Christians need to stop simping
It's so funny when some college freshman tries to be a racist edgelord online. 9/11 was global news after the 1st tower was hit, people were watching the 2nd strike and towers fall on live TV all over the world.
You just called Muslims sand n****** and now want to pretend you know anything about the culture...
I'm well aware of the theories surrounding 9/11 and actually do consider myself a truther as the official story could not be a more obvious load of bullshit. That's besides the point, nothing is simply black or white. As I said, I don't feel like writing a dissertation and certainly have no interest in engaging further with something as pathetic as you have displayed yourself to be between this and your other pointless Muslim/Jew-hating comments. You clearly have either no interest or entirely lack the capacity to have a meaningful discussion.
Are you some kind of moron? Which sane person supports Hamas?
The real question would be Israel or Palestine. Though even then I don’t think you must take a side. You can condemn Hamas and feel empathy for both Israel and Palestine. Incrementally I probably sympathize more with Palestine but both sides have very much suffered. Hamas though does not deserve to exist
Israel
Israel is the taller dwarf here, but remember:
Israel has put in no good faith effort to rescue the hostages, most of whom are Israeli citizens.
The far-right Zionist population in Israel has been harassing families of said Israeli citizens who have been demanding the government to negotiate with Hamas to get those hostages released.
Israel has actually refused the release of some hostages because that would "feed into Hamas' propaganda".
Israel has suppressed freedom of speech by arresting people who expressed support of Palestine.
Israel is an apartheid state who treats Palestinian Israelis as second class citizens.
Israel has a proven track record of bombing hospitals and refugee camps.
Israel has been bombing civilian airports in Syria and Jordan.
Benjamin Netanyahu has been recorded on video admitting that he wants to keep Hamas in power to keep Palestine separated.
Israel is the god father of modern day terrorism. They used terrorism to get the British and UN to agree to the 1948 borders.
Complete speculation and impossible to prove. Publicly outlining a plan to infiltrate a hostile territory to retrieve hostages would be idiotic. No evidence that it's not something they and the US aren't both working towards in some capacity.
If anything the families of kidnapping victims are some of the biggest advocates for the current military incursion into Gaza, they're being used in the media to batter anyone who is against taking military action. You don't negotiate with terrorists... That gives them high ground to just rinse and repeat the same behavior to keep getting concessions. You handle them the same way the Mossad did during the 1972 Munich Olympics.
I am genuinely interested in reading up on this if you could reference a source because that's shocking if true. They seriously rejected the unconditional release of hostages because of optics? Or were there unreasonable terms tied to it?
Agreed that this is a bad thing. I didn't like it when Ukraine did it and I don't like it when Israel does it. Freedom of speech is an absolute value.
Not true. Palestine is its own state with its own laws and by definition its people aren't citizens of Israel. The checkpoints are no different than moving between any other 2 countries with hostile relations and the walls and surveillance apparatus are their own fault for committing constant terror attacks over the past 50+ years. Muslims are not treated any different under the law living in Israel than Jews, in fact they have the benefit of not being conscripted into the military.
Which is where Hamas deliberately chooses to store their weapons and supplies, then subsequently tells and/or forces civilians to stay in the line of fire to act as human shields, which they can then turn around and use as media fodder to drum up support for themselves.
From what I've read, Israel has been crippling airports where there's evidence of supplying Hamas. They have not been targeting civilian aircraft or high traffic areas. If they are however targeting civilians then that should absolutely be condemned.
This is 100% true and one of the things I didn't touch on in my comment above. Bibi is on record stating (I think 10+ years ago?) that supporting Hamas is a way to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza can never be taken seriously on the global negotiation stage. This doesn't change the fact they won a popular election (the last time Gaza had one) and still receive widespread support, but it is worth noting that much like how the US helped spawn the Taliban, Israel helped secure power for Hamas early on. This IMO is probably one of the biggest reasons this should be left for Israel to deal with, because for a time they were the beneficiaries of the chaos that eventually led to this moment.
Just... no.
This is true, groups like Haganah, Lehi, Irgun, and other ultra-nationalists were pretty intense to put it lightly. Right after WWII though... Don't agree with the methods, but I can kind of understand why.
Are you jewish. Can I drink your cum? I was told if I stroke Israel I will also be blessed
--Sincerely--most white Christians who ignore that the Knesseet tried to ban Christianity 3 months ago
How can you say stuff like
"This is true, groups like Haganah, Lehi, Irgun, and other ultra-nationalists were pretty intense to put it lightly. Right after WWII though... Don't agree with the methods, but I can kind of understand why."
and not understand why hamas even exists ? It's the same shit, but you just "feel" that somehow they were justified because of what they suffered, but don't really feel the same about palestinians getting oppressed forever because they are not really "like you", it doesn't feel personal.
Hamas just happens to be rather weak and anti-western so they are a good scaptegoat to use. If Israel was some Russia/China ally the west would be claiming hamas is some liberation front and showing dead children from Gaza all day long instead of supporting "self defense".
It's all just bullshit. Literally all independence wars were bloody and asymetric.
Lavon Affair--Israel bombs British Hotel and tried to blame Egypt.
USS Liberty--Conservatives want to "support the troops" until someone from that ship steps forward. Then they have trheir benefits taken! Find me an interview with a survivor from the Liberty. Is it on Faux News? CNN? Field and Stream? I see lots of veterans from other ships on those platforms
HAM-ass is a demonic terrorist group. And they are literally HAM, israel's fiercest foe after drivable roads and hydrophobic Christians (ptooe!)
Dude, post sources or go away this copy and paste
You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
Israel has proven time and again that it will do more for hostages than anyone in history has done. When Gilad Shalit was taken hostage - Israel got him back by releasing 1,000 Palestinian militants. That's right 1000 to 1. That's how much Israel values its citizens. Look it up.
You. Have. No. Clue. What. You're. Talking. About.
Your comments about news is straight up incorrect. No main street news is opposed to Israel defending itself from future attacks. There are lots of people in the United States and elsewhere who directly or indirectly support Hamas. Every protest for the Palestinians and against Israel indirectly supports Hamas. The protestors do not believe that Israel has a right to defend it itself from future attacks. That is basically support for Hamas. It is dreadful what has been going on at US universities to the point where donors have been vocal about not donating if the schools are going to condone hate mongering and antisemitism.
Do you think killing over 7,000 people counts as self defence and the opposition to it counts as support for Hamas? What’s the logic, here?
Yes, because is no other way to get rid of Hamas, which is a threat to the existence of Israel. Hamas hides in underground tunnels near civilians. There is literally no other way to get rid of them other than to go through the civilians. The bottom line is that Israel is going to do what in in its own best interest. I would blame Hamas for the loss of life in Gaza.
Aside from the fact that this question is worded stupidly I feel like I’m finally drawn to this conflict I’ve avoided having an opinion about.
tbh, I was shocked when Hamas attacked Israel. The photos were really bad. I was shocked for like a day before Israel started dropping bombs like a bunch of maniacs on a besieged population. There’s now 5x dead in Gaza, and the footage is insane. People incinerated, chopped up by the bombs, and heads completely fractured. There is no justification for this. And this is just a placeholder until the US jumps in to allow Israel to invade Gaza. The fucking imbecile Netanyahu said, in Hebrew, that they’re basically fulfilling a doomsday biblical promise. Seems like the self defence argument, conveniently only uttered in English, is overridden by bloodlust and revenge fantasies. I don’t buy that Israel is defending itself in any way. Israel can’t even put out coherent borders for itself because expansionism is apparently a greater priority. It will always be threatened because of its complacency. The US and other western governments need to stay out militarily and find a way to negotiate the hostages out. Any other course of action, most importantly emboldening a government of convicted terrorists and messianic lunatics, will drive the Middle East into a devastating war and bring a demographic crisis to their doorstep.
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