Being surrounded by five seas provided Italy with a geographical advantage with regards to tourism, attracting innovation and agriculture. Historically, Italy has been known for its exquisite cuisine, beautiful music and skillful football teams. Fortunately, it can now also add a ‘healthy population’ to the list, per recent findings from the World Health Organization.
The skyrocketing of Italy to the top of the list of nations with the healthiest populations may have a lot to do with its healthcare professionals.
Italy… has “an excess of doctors,” said Tom Kenyon, a physician and CEO of the global relief organization Project Hope. Case in point, one of the country’s most watched and long-running television shows is called “A Doctor in the Family.”
It is as much due to its geographical location as it is due to education that Italy made the top of the charts; being located with very close proximity to a vast network of water:
Then there is the diet, rich in vegetables and drizzled with extra virgin olive oil. Adam Drewnowski, director of the Center for Public Health Nutrition at the University of Washington, has written about the importance of consumers having access to fresh produce, fruit, lean meats and fish.
Lastly, the results were measured as follows:
Each country in the index was graded based on variables such as life expectancy, causes of death and health risks ranging from high blood pressure and tobacco use to malnutrition and the availability of clean water.
Source:
Italy ranked healthiest people
Questions
1. Could these rankings lead to a higher rate of migration into Italy?
2. Are you surprised by the results from the WHO? Which could would you have presumed to top Italy?
3. Which country do you believe should have been first?
I'm from Italy. Let's be clear, healthcare is one of the reasons our debt is so high, but at least you can argue it's money well spent on the health of citizens.
Diet, good climate help too.
For the rest, we are epically fucked. Expect to hear from us wantint to kill the Euro soon enough.
Italy is definitely on top of the list of my places to go, once I'm graduated and no longer in debt. I'll do more research on the other reasons for Italy's debt, I'm curious as to what else is contributing to that.
The main reason is that governments from 1970 to 1990 run 5% deficits to build the welfare state, including healthcare, but also an extremely generous pension system (we have something like 8000 people costing the state 45 billions a year, and the Constitutional Court just shut down an attempt to reduce their pension because they are ''acquired rights'').
But if you come here for vacation purposes, it's still a lovely country. Lots of historical places but also lots of beaches or mountains according to your taste. Best food in the world too.
You live in the best country on earth in my view
the cuisine, the beaches, the ladies, the music mmmm lo amo l'italiaa
Euro is a monetary dictatorship i hope it will collapse soon
Buena Fortuna
In response to your question #1, when you say migration I'm sure you're aware of the current migration 'crisis' (I added the ' because some people are finicky with how to characterize it) so I think that answers that question, related to your other question, reasons for the debt are complicated and I won't pretend to know but in my opinion its related to a few key topics: the general culture (I would characterize it as the cliche of 'working to live' vs 'living to work' where they generally value working to live), the socioeconomic divide b/w the north and south - you cannot compare, say Milan, to a city/region in the South (say, Puglia or Calabria or perhaps Sicily) and so because of that I don't buy for a second the idea that there is a general idea of having a plethora of doctors in Italy; if you know / come from Southern Italy you hear stories, I have visited hospitals there (bare bones, disturbing experience in my opinion) and I have heard many first-hand accounts and I could write an entire essay on the stories but its not worth it. I don't think the health of Italian citizens is 100% due to doctors. There is generally a gap between the private healthcare (see: out of pocket for the well-off) and the public healthcare. I believe the the Italian Director Roberto Benigni has a movie which touches on this issue where the economic opportunities have either been in Northern Italy or to simply leave Italy (can't remember the name of the movie) and its my opinion its still like this (see Southern Italy unemployment rates, also, I've seen it with my own two eyes its not pretty - again, I have stories but would rather not share unless in a DM), the ballooning population (migrant 'crisis') and the government's response to said 'crisis' (to provide 'benefits' to the new 'immigrants' which in turn further increases gov liabilities). Again, extremely complicated issue but those are key topics in my opinion. I'm going back in a few months and will spend half my time in the North and half my time in the South as usual, if I remember to I'll post my observations here - it will be my fourth time there.
My take on why Italy is the healthiest is simple: Mediterranean diet, forced daily exercise (lots and lots of walking just to complete simple routines such as shopping), and the family dynamic there is unique (usually all three generations will live in the same household, visualize a three-story home in which each generation occupies a separate floor) which means the elderly will get further social stimulus, and superior social life (everyone typically meets in the town square at night for socializing, young and old). That being said, I'm worried about the current youth generation (specifically in the South), not many opportunities and I think not many are willing to do the same type of work their father / grandfather did in the past. Again, I'm generalizing but that is my observation.
Very detailed and intriguing reply, thank you for that. I am aware of the current migration situation happening, and directed my question more towards looking to legally move to Italy to start their lives. You've brought up countless good points about the mentality of Italians when it comes to work-life balance. If I remember correctly, many countries in Europe have this same mentally and is one of the reasons they're 40-hour work weeks (correct me if i'm wrong). About your point regarding the socioeconomic divergence between regions of Italy, I'll have to definitely make note of seeking out the movie you've mentioned. Lastly, If you have the time I would be interested hearing about said stories.
Thank you for the insight into Italy, now I will have to research further into this.
This is what is wrong with our generation. People will do anything to work in a glitzy office building, without giving thought to what value-add they can provide if put in such a position. Hence the preference for a gender studies/philology degree over a trade school, and the excuse to bring migrants over. Not that I'm against migration, but young people ought to understand that you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Update: Recently came back from my annual trip to Italy, visited the Tuscany region (think Florence, Venice, Rome) and thought it was worth sharing what I learned this time around on this thread specifically since it is Italy + economy focused. I spoke to a local artisan (think linen, painter or leather maker), a taxi cab driver and a local and was surprised at their thoughts.
The Artisan: Spoke mainly about the decline of the craft (as in, how few people do what this artisan does anymore - dwindling population of this specific artisan in the city) and how, generally, tourists fail to acknowledge 'quasi-leather' versus genuine leather as well as hand-crafted versus mass-produced. You have to figure the crowded areas of these cities have the high-fashion Italian stores with the international brand name along with cheap 'fake' leather goods being sold informally among the same crowded streets. These artisans on their side-streets, as I was told, aren't doing amazing because of that lack-of-acknowledgement factor + the location factor. And that is being compounded on the already-known fact that the craft is in decline.
The Taxi-Cab Driver: Spoke mainly about the education opportunities and how cities like Milan are likely the only 'successful' city for young Italians where they can make money. Described education as somewhat lopsided, meaning, if you are average (translated into US I would say 'if you are non-target' - as in - you need to be at a target + top of your class in a target to have a shot at a job) then it is very unlikely, per the tax-cab driver on the youth in Italy, you would unlikely ever find a job relevant to your interests. Said a lot more, specifically about the difficulty of making enough money to raise dependents. This may explain the trend in Europe (think Greece and Italy) in which the two or three generations of a family live in the same 2-3 story home together. Sharing the costs amongst those in the direct family who are receiving pensions.
The Local: Spoke mainly about how locals were, generally, moving out of the downtown sections of tourist-heavy cities (think Florence / Venice) and instead were, generally, moving to new apartments build on the outskirts of these cities (as in, so far out of the tourist areas where the locals used to live its like a 15-20min car ride and theres no tourists around). Why do they do this? To, generally, either sell the apartment or rent it out to tourists / college students via the obvious methods people use nowadays. Mentioned that these cities would soon literally become a museum in and of itself in a way. So few original families exist in these cities.
Common themes: 1) Tourists and the methods to rent apartments to tourists are generally, and in their opinion a factor in these old families moving out of these cities - rents generally were said to have increased (heavily?) I believe they mentioned which may be linked to the influx of tourists. A type of gentrification but not really gentrification, it affects the elderly in a way due to the displacement but at the same time it wasn't and is likely not total displacement but each of these people did mention that the apartments you see in the popular tourist-areas in these main cities are usually rented apartments that locals used to own and live in and now don't.
2) Hustling in these non-Milan cities is almost necessary to make 'good money' (which too is arguable because I heard it is very difficult to make enough money to even be able to raise a family - it is a culture more about 'now' than 'the future'. One hypothetical example would be the tour-guide that 'partners' with a local restaurant in which the tour guide, hypothetically, treats the restaurant as a planned trip of the tour and asks for money from people to take them to the restaurant - I would guess he/she would likely get a % off the top of whatever money is collected for the restaurant .
Hope someone finds it interesting, I did. They said a lot more and were very passionate about their cities and their country.
The WHO report is a complete joke. The selected methodology is so skewed that it leads to absolutely absurd results (Cuba better healthcare than the US, for example). Don't read too much into it. No one takes it seriously beyond left-wing politicians and/or academics. If you're dying from cancer or from an infectious disease, you're not going to make a trip to Italy for its healthcare because the WHO (though you may go for the food).
If you talk about access to healthcare for the ENTIRE population, Cuba does beat the US on healthcare.Treatments for basic "19th century" diseases such as malaria, etc. are way cheaper and accessible in Cuba for the average poor person than for the equivalent dude in the US. But ofc, USA beats Cuba technology-wise and for the treatment of advanced diseases.
But no point in boasting about technology when the average Joe can't access it.
Who the fuck dies from malaria in the U.S.? The average Joe can't access technology? And that's based on what evidence? Your left wing delusions? We have the most MRI per 1000, by far.
These people are too much man.
Access to band aids and equipment sterilized in vodka for surgery then yes Cuba can give healthcare to all. But your comparison about malaria is a bit wonky, it is expensive in the USA because no one gets it and hospitals basically have to keep ordering medication they never use just in case some dumb fuck goes to Cuba and get malaria and then comes back to the States.
I've got a take on this: It's because the Mediterranean (France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal) countries , don't have a culture of getting absolutely sloshed when drinking, unlike the anglo-saxon countries and northern/eastern europe. Children in Italy are brought up with the idea that having a glass of wine or a beer with lunch/dinner is normal, it's part of the social aspect of the nation. That's why the drinking age in Italy for beer and wine is 16 and you rarely see kids getting hammered like their counterparts in say, Britain. If you factor this in, you get a population that doesn't consume the volume of alcohol of their international peers which is definitely a leg up in terms of health.
Second, in the case of Italy and France, you have two countries in which fashion plays a really massive part of society. To be clear I know that technically NYC is also a so called "fashion capital" but I'm referring to "high fashion" (Armani, Versace, Bulgari, Prada, Chanel, Gaultier, etc you get the gist) not that garbage that Kanye comes out with. So what does this mean? well, when your economy is grounded upon the fashion industry which is run by seemingly physically perfect beings you're going to have them as role models. So kids growing up in Italy look at Giorgio Armani and they go "hell, the man is 82 and looks fantastic, i need to make sure i look like that at that age". Yes, I do realize that this is mostly apparent in the North of Italy given Milan, but its still a factor in the rest of the country. So the aspiration to be, at least, physically healthy is very very common in Italy and France. This goes hand in hand with the fact that being overweight, at least in a very apparent way, is severely looked down upon in these countries. Why do you think the main criticism of America that comes from Europe is "Americans are obese"?
Third, already been mentioned but to reiterate the point; the cuisine. Italian and Spanish cuisine specifically are based on the use of simple, local, healthy ingredients. This certainly doesn't hurt. A specific example, in the US people wake up and have anything ranging from eggs and bacon to cereals (which are full of sugar and artificial colors) for breakfast. In Italy, you wake up, have a cappuccino, some biscuits and maybe a croissant. The diets are just so much more balanced and healthy as a whole. This goes hand in hand with the fact that you go to get lunch in Italy and nowhere, and I mean nowhere, do you find one of those greasy food trucks (don't get me wrong, i love them) that people go to in the US.
I've been to hospitals in Italy. Honestly, they're like everywhere else in the world, there are good ones and bad ones. The difference however, as mentioned above, is that healthcare is much more accessible than it is in other parts of the world, mostly thanks to the government's healthcare plan. Now, would I bankrupt the nation so that everyone can afford healthcare? maybe not but when you combine this, with a general view of the populace that health is easily the most important aspect of everyday life, you're bond to have a healthy country.
My 0.02 guys, as usual feel free to voice your dissent.
Extra Virgin Olive Oil, perhaps a factor in this.
You can add low stress.
Italy's biggest cities are Rome with 2.5 million people and Milan 1.5. Even together they are nowhere near the big European cities like Paris or London that go by the 10 million. Most Italians live in small-medium sized cities that are also major holiday locations, meaning most Italians spend most of their time in ''vacation'' compared to many other Western citizens.
If you're ever in a bind with your health care, go to Italy. Went to the ER there twice and didn't get charged a dime.
The diet helps for sure. Plus meat is crazy expensive in Italy and most people are doing with a lot less money than in say France.
2nd best food in the world after France I would say, but best women for sure.
Don't you have to take WHO life expectancy statistics with a grain of salt? I've read that every country has different methods of determining life expectancy, with a key factor of differentiation being how infant deaths are categorized. From what I recall, the U.S., for example, is very conservative in how it contributes infant deaths into life expectancy while most European countries are more liberal with excluding infant deaths from life expectancy statistics.
Also, this is qualitative, but if Italy (or any country) had taken in countless tens of millions of poor immigrants the last 50 years as the U.S. has done I'm curious what the healthcare outcomes would look like. We've got entire cities in Texas and California that are majority composed of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation migrant workers or their descendants. I'm genuinely curious about the life expectancy of, say, the U.S. white population vs Italy, or the U.S. population of people whose grandparents were Americans vs. Italy's population. I think some of these health statistics, while "correct", could reflect a skewed sense of reality.
I read this article when it was first published in 2011, but it is one of the best articles written dispelling many of the myths about U.S. healthcare relative to the rest of the world:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/11/23/the-myth-of-ameri…
Of the entire article, this is the most telling quote:
In other words, the U.S. (probably sometime around 2007 or 2008 when the numbers were adjusted) had the longest life expectancy when removing fatalities from injuries (such as murder and car accidents). And this is before adjusting life expectancy numbers for how infant mortality is more conservatively reported in the U.S. When you compare U.S. obesity to Italian obesity (~31% to 8.5%) and the fact that there are tens of millions of illegal immigrants and poor legal immigrants in the U.S., it's actually breathtaking how much better the U.S. healthcare system is compared to Italy's.
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