FT just published a story about some top Goldman guys getting fired for violating the communication policy, which seems like a bit of a stretch since it seems like everyone in the industry was violating it. What really struck out to me was the last line:
Several banks now require employees to install Movius on their phones, an app that allows compliance staff to monitor calls, text messages and WhatsApp conversations with clients.
That's some Orwellian shit right there, and I would not want my employer snooping on my personal texts/calls. I personally have a second phone as a habit from my construction days, but there is another benefit that translates to anyone, namely legal protection. If you are ever involved in a lawsuit the opposing counsel can claim your device as evidence in discovery and go through everything once it's been turned over. If you keep a separate line you can segment that out and avoid any risks to your personal stuff. I've also heard of stories where people are forced to download surveillance software on their phones and then when they are fired/quit the company is able to remotely wipe the entire phone, with people losing years worth of personal texts/photos/etc.
You can get a second line for like $30/mo with basic talk/text/a few gigs of data. I highly recommend it. Plus, you can just turn it off/leave it at home when you don't want to be bothered. Anyone else rock the double phone life?
https://www.ft.com/content/493d7d34-1cc4-4b38-aad4-5c83926b36ff
Can you imagine throwing away a senior position like that?
More than one phone has always been the standard but app stores have changed perceptions for those who came after the BlackBerry era.
If I do have a work device I assume any activity is monitored, I'm not letting an employer install anything on my personal devices so I do not allow anything work related to leave my work devices either.
Apparently I am in the minority without a dedicated work phone. I absolutely hate having my work email, Authenticator apps, etc on here. But so far, no actual monitoring to spying app/software
I refuse to put work email on my personal phone. If it’s an emergency, call me. I’ll reply to email during normal business hours.
One of these days I’ll be rewarded with a dedicated work phone…
It actually makes it a lot easier if you can respond to emails on your phone. Would hate if I had to open my computer and login every time I needed to respond to a basic email. But you’re probably not an IB analyst and don’t have to deal with constantly sending meeting invites, agendas, all that process stuff which requires lots of quick emails 18 hours a day.
I’m not in that game anymore, but I was and remember getting emails at 11-12 at night after the client met with superiors for a 7pm dinner meeting.
When things are urgent, I crank out the hours and work while managing my email, calendar, and tasks. When I’m offline, people call me when they need me.
I stopped taking direction about a year ago and now I’ve taken command. I haven’t had too many complaints and most people appreciate a manager with a set of rocks. My work speaks for itself, I’ve become an SME in this space, and I get calls from the local newspaper seeking comment on occasion (fake news likes to twist what I say!). I sometimes get pushback like, “you didn’t reply to my urgent email at 8pm last night!?” I bark back, “if it was so urgent, why didn’t you call me!?”
The corp dev team doesn’t have a hyper deal flow so it’s not reasonable or necessary to be cranking 80 hour weeks over and over…
To each their own. My big complaint is I’d lose email on my mobile device. Strangest thing. A few times I’m sure I accidentally deleted something. But other times I recall getting an email and not seeing it on the PC later. You can bet IT was eager to investigate this issue…
Exactly right.
Work business is management’s business and anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron.
If you’re doing something you need to keep from Boss Man — sex, drugs, private trades, office gossip — don’t do it on workplace devices and any devices used for work.
""That's some Orwellian shit right there, and I would not want my employer snooping on my personal texts/calls."
I understand why there's the policy, at least on the trading side. Sometimes a customer comes to us for pricing and near the time of the eventual trade, an internal trader will also be executing in that market. From the outside, it appears that a trader at our firm is potentially frontrunning the customer (and that we aren't giving the customer best pricing), so a regulator will request our communication logs as to determine when the customer agreed on pricing with us, and whether the internal trader was party to said communications.
It can be a bit annoying/less convenient though so I get why people used personal devices. Ultimately, think 99% of the cases there was no malicious intent.
I can definitely appreciate there are some industries where it makes more sense. I work in real estate and I can pretty confidently say that no one is going to need to snoop through your shit unless you're in a lawsuit.
Once you leave your group, would it be recommended to get a new phone so it’s not monitored by any software and the device is a fresh slate that’s separate from anything you worked on?
Usually, a clean wipe will do it for you to clear out anything. If you have access to a JTAG or access to the system memory you can completely put a fresh OS build onto the device and do a complete memory wipe (and it is a clear wipe, not forensic retrievable). No need for a new phone.
I encourage people to get a second and/or third line if necessary, regarding compliance stuff. Keep work and personal "SEPERATE".
Yes, there are also teams at the companie(s) that actually monitor your productivity too, by the way. These are created in reports and sent to management regarding everything but everything. They install these surveillance apps on laptops at financial institutions already.
We live in a very scary world.
Nothing new here, been the case for years basically everywhere. Banks usually give you two options: use a corporate device (monitored) for professional conversations and keep ur own personal…. Or install an app on your personal.
Truth is you should never be discussing confidential, work-related matters on your personal phone.
I remember hearing a talk from Jefferies compliance team who said that 2 analysts got fired for being homophobic on their work phones.
Allegedly, the both said f***** and then one said "you know compliance can see these messages" and the other replied "compliance can suck my balls"
Not sure why they'd do that on a work phone tho.
This shouldn't be an issue if people are able to properly manage their 2 phones. In 1 keep your family/non-work friends/etc. and in another one you keep strictly all people that you know from professional settings.
Th idea is that when you work in a field with regulations around information, then even a harmless event or activity with a friend or colleague may - in SEC/Compliance eyes - raise a suspicion that something shady may be discussed.
And I don't see it necessarily as an Orwellian thing, this is the price you pay when you choose a career in a regulated field in the same way as a politician may need to sacrifice his privacy (i.e. disclosure more information about private things) if they want to continue doing what they're do.
You just make it sound like you send on a consistent basis nudes to your colleagues and you don't want compliance to see you at your lowest.
Just started using my work phone recently. Can’t have my email on my personal without all of these other apps, and security BS. Wanted me to lengthen my phones PIN, install apps, and allow phone control. Not happening.
Are there deals for 2 lines, specifically Verizon? Also, do companies usually give a stipend for a second line?
My firm provides me with a phone
My employer embraced the Kevin Gates lifestyle and I had a second phone for a couple years while I was trading ags. I liked it and think one benefit that might be overlooked is having two carriers at your disposal, which is extremely convenient when one has spotty connectivity in a certain area. Similarly, different carriers have different international partners, so having expanded coverage while you're traveling/vacationing abroad was great as well.
Carrying two phones is super annoying. Do we think that the Microsoft device management is snooping outside of work apps?
I heard about Movius - it apparently creates like a virtual phone on your phone that has your work apps all in it so you don’t use your real apps for texting/calling clients. Seems like decent idea but I heard the app absolutely sucks and doesn’t even send notifications for email - not sure why banks would push this garbage.
The options are 2 phones or 1 phone with 2 Sim cards.
https://buyersguide.org/dual-SIM-phone/t/best?Country=US&m=b&d=c&c=6525…
Just to be clear:
Almost every single professional and financial services firm (bank, accountancy, consultancy etc) is able to view ANYTHING on your phone when you install their profile. Yes, they are watching. Yes, your non-work related text messages are viewable by your firm. Your internet activity. Often even your photos.
Send something a bit risqué? Talk about your firm? Yes, they will use it against you if they want to and there’s nothing a damn thing you can do about it because you consented to it.
Never, ever, EVER combine your personal and work devices. I cannot stress this enough.
I don't think this is the case with 2 sim cards.
It can be. It depends on the type of phone you’re using (iPhone/Samsung/Blackberry have very different systems regarding this) and also the profile settings.
I would not risk it one bit. It isn’t worth it.
This is 100% false. Downloading outlook or blackberry work and connecting to your Firm's server in no way grants them access to the personal contents on your phone. I don't know what in the world you're smoking but send me to your plug please.
JFC the FBI has trouble getting unauthorized access to iPhones you think the dogshit 20 year old tech competency at an IB or full service bank can even remotely compare?
Did you read the part where I said “installing your firm’s profile”? Maybe you should have another go. I did not mention merely connecting to an Outlook account.
Most (not all, hence why I was very clear to not say ‘all’ at any point in my post) firms in the industry require you to install an MDM profile which WILL give that firm access to pretty much anything it bloody well wants to have access to.
lol i used to have an iphone with my consulting firm few years ago and it was better than my personal phone so i would constantly send photos of shopping items to my wife to confirm if thats the right thing to buy or photos of the babies shit when she was away so that she could better judge if she had digestion / stomach / intolerance related issues from eating something she shouldnt have. hope compliance enjoyed viewing that.
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