The friendzone reversed

yup

The ladder theory will answer all your questions http://www.laddertheory.com/

Of course guys have a 'friend zone.' How else would we classify fat chicks?

If you're hot, though, I'm going to have to say 'no.' If a hot friend of mine wants to start hooking up--well, I'm going to have to go ahead and allow it 9 times out of 10 (the 1 in 10 is where they used to date, say, my brother).

So if a girl is ranked high on the men's "want to fuck" ladder, then what differentiates her from just a fuck buddy and relationship material? And is there a way to switch?

I don't know if you can really switch from fuck buddy to legitimate girlfriend. It depends, I guess, on whether you're actually his 'buddy,' or just some girl he bangs at 2am whilst shitfaced. If you start as friends, and just hook up every so often when it's mutually convenient, you never really moved into the 'friend zone,' so you're fine. But if you're a booty call, well, your options are limited. You can try withholding sex for a while, but that may result in him just looking elsewhere, so I think you should go in the opposite direction: have some seriously crazy sex. I mean...do some shit that he would have to pay for elsewhere. He might start taking you out in the daytime, then.

If you're just a fuck buddy then you are most definitely not high on the ladder. It means he has at least a few prospects above you on his ladder.

Hmmmm. I always thought I had guy friends, but maybe girls' thinking in this department is fundamentally flawed. I mean, you don't see too many married men with close female friends, at least if they're faithful.

Are you just curious in general, or do you like some guy and he won't make a move?

things that make a girl relationship material vs. a fuck buddy: you can cook your family has money your family is well connected you have a tight bod AND there is something charming about you: sense of humor/wit/elegance etc you know when to keep your mouth shut around his friends or in company in general (you won't embarrass him) you are not too clingy, he can have a beer with a male friend without you worrying about him running away not a feminist (ok if you are independent so long as you are fair) not boring your interests align with his or you are at least supportive of them not a crazy religious zealot

You could be any or all of the above and still be a good fuck buddy. He is not going to care.

The hooking up/relationship dynamic is strongly impacted by perceptions and the fact of the matter is, perceptions are established early on and are difficult to change. If I meet a girl at a bar, proceed to hook up/have sex either that night or soon thereafter and continue doing so for some time, I'm not going to want to get into a relationship with her for several reasons:

1. On the aggregate, girls control the physical, guys control the emotional (I know there are some bitches for men out there that fall for any vagina that shows them attention--we're excluding them). Once you've given control of the former, he has no reason to go out on dates, hang out, etc. He's not going to do it no matter how cool you may be simply because you never established a romantic connection. You could begin to hold off on the sex/try to spend time outside of the bedroom, but your odds are slim at this point.

2. When guys are with a girl, they tend to talk about her in two ways with their friends: if it's a fuck-buddy, explicit details are shared (and often exaggerated), whereas if it's about a girl with whom they potentially see a future, lips are more tightly sealed. Once you've told all the raunchy stories, it's hard to think about a girl in a dating context...

3. For me, at least, if a girl fucks on the first night, I find it hard to trust her. It seems that she's either out just to have a good time (which is fine) or that she has little to no self control. Neither quality is sought after in a girlfriend, particularly with the hours I work.

4. If you come off as a party/just for fun girl in the beginning, it's really difficult to change that perception. When I meet a girl and have a conversation with her, I immediately sort her into one of four categories: dateable (attractive+good personality), fuckable (attractive+fun personality or just attractive), friend (unattractive, but good/fun personality) or avoid (unattractive+shitty personality). 1 and 2 are malleable, but after a few chats/dates/fucks/whatever the lines are drawn. Same thing with the whole friend thing... it's hard to get out of the category if you've been put there, unless your big flaw was weight and you lost it...

Could write more, but I'll leave it at the above for now...

Mezz is correct. If you're sufficiently attractive, the guy will fuck you almost every time in the scenario he gave.

wait, but then by this logic ugly girls would have no guy friends, which isn't true. I applied the ladder theory challenge as you suggested, and it was a pretty disturbing revelation. Thinking about it kind of grosses me out, at least with some of the guys.

No more fun insights? They were interesting.

My best female friend is tall, pretty, with a good body and a great personality, yet I've never been attracted to her, and I've had a few chances to get with her. I guess if the friend dynamic is established early, its sometimes hard to change that.

@OP: I noticed that your name is CitySophisticate, does that mean that you work at Sophisticats in the City?

there are a few more exceptions to the ladder theory. if the guy realizes there is no chance or has already been there and the two sides are mature enough to let bygones be bygones, friendship can be pretty good.

as per the OP's question, a girl can definitely come out of the "friend with benefits" zone into the relationship zone, but for that to happen you have to impress the guy to the effect that he would realize that he wants to spend his time with you, have something meaningful, and that you won't take any more being the fuckbuddy.

on the other hand, the guy might just not be looking for a relationship and will just back out once faced with a difficult choice.

good luck

only fat girls are in my friendzone.

as a girl you move into a guy's friendzone by growing fatter and uglier.

however if you have a truly horrid face but amazing body like a butterface, you would not be in the friendszone.

/\ haha

What are the chances that you move out of the friend zone and into the "benefits" zone? Basically none right? One of my friends is always hanging out with this attractive girl and says that he is "putting in the time for when she changes her mind".. and I laugh every time

if she aint puttin out she is in the friend zone