My younger sister and a few of her friends came over to my house yesterday after a night out. One of her friends is a finance major and has interest in a banking career. So he was talking to me about banking interviews and asked me a question from left field that completely stumped me.
I was telling him that he needs to be ready to answer the "what leadership experiences have you had and what did you learn from them"
As this guy did not have anything substantial to answer, he told me that he is a very serious World of Warcraft player, (which is a video game on the internet where you play with other people and kill things for items that make you better). He proceeded with saying how he is a senior leader of a 100+ group of players that several times a week has to get together and kill a challenging bad guy. He said that this process takes a lot of coordination and effort and requires the leadership of the event to precisely plan and execute a strategy that can easily fail if he does not tell his people exactly what needs to be done.
Now the way he explained it, it actually sounded like this really is a pretty solid example of leadership experience, but thinking that if someone that I was interviewing would tell me about some video game, I would laugh at them and tell them to go work in the portolet maintenance business. Of course I did not have the heart to tell the guy that, I said something along the lines of "that's great, but you probably need to do something more real world related".
What would you as those who regularly interview candidates, provide as a response to such a "leadership" experience.
I would laugh the guy out of the room. Leadership requires risking something a little more...real; not some amount of points/status on a computer game. It's not hard to lead when the only downside is negatively impacting the ill-placed emotions of a group of kids.
Two of my college roommates were addicted to this game...and they're two of the most socially awkward people I've ever met. If leaders have to be charismatic...this definitely doesn't help.
I'm not gonna lie - knowing someone who was into this game very seriously, I would not completely blow off that leadership experience. It actually does require time commitment, people and management skills. I realize that it sounds pretty ridiculous, but if you think about it a little bit, who is to say that being the secretary of your finance club entails more responsibility than being the whatever clan leader you may be on World of Warcraft?
The WSO Guide to Understanding TARP
Haha, even after seeing that video multiple times before, I still laugh my ass off every time I watch it.
bottom line is: WoW leadership exp is cute, but it's no indicator. it's a tiny plus on the management skills, but a probable minus on social skills.
random hackneyed words of wisdom
how do you explain it when the MD interviewer asks what the hell world of warcraft is?
I guess I never met too many of the players of this game, but the guy I talked to did not see very socially awkward. But I definitely see your point.
I love the "my friend" (or in this case, "my younger sister's friend") line.
Stop playing WoW and get some real leadership experience.
uh, I'm already employed
'Leadership experience' is a topic that comes up in the character/fit part of the interview. Who the hell is going to want to pull long hours with this guy?
It doesn't matter if this counts as leadership experience or not - this guy isn't grounded in reality.
From knowing several friends who lost their lives to this game (tragic, I know), I can safely say that it probably IS more demanding than 'starting a finance club' or something silly like that.
It's also terribly lame.
I could say I dug a ditch 8 hours a day, every day for a month. For fun. It shows willingness to put in long hours, diligence, masochism - all good traits in an IBanker. Heck, I'm sure you could make an eloquent case for why it's more demanding than X Y or Z clubs.
But at the end of the day, you're still just digging a ditch. No one in Banking thinks that's cool, interesting, or impressive.
Yeah this is a perfect example of considering who you are speaking to. No matter what the reality is its going to have a stigma attached to it by outsiders. I am an avid tournament poker and that was something I selectively mentioned in interviews only after I got enough clues that the interviewer would understand it and not just think of it as gambling.
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
hahaha nerds
who are you to give banking advice, trailmix? YOU WORK IN THE GODDAMN BACK OFFICE
"Operations offers a great lifestyle for people. For example, I enjoy working 60 hour weeks instead of 90-100. I still make a great living. I realize that I am not going to be an MD in a PE firm, but I also get to eat dinner with my family every day, not worry about work every weekend, play in several sports leagues, take vacations without spending 3 out of every 10 minutes with the blackberry, etc etc. "
-trailmix "aka the loser"
At about 0:31 in a trader is playing "World of Warcraft" pretty blatantly right in front of the market news segment. European obviously.
World of Warcraft is great experience for investment banking. You mindlessly do repetitive tasks for the sake of some (illusory) payoff in the end. Instead of thinking of creative, efficient methods, you copy what other people have done and then repeat the process until you succeed.
That being said, using that experience to justify your qualification for banking is on the same level as using it to pick up girls. Junior bankers who don't play (and what banker has time to play?) will stigmatize you. Senior bankers who make the hiring decision will have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
The idea of management in clan gaming is currently at its beginning stages, but there is definitely merit to those type of leadership skills.
The reason why you might get laughed at is because the interviewer is an old fart who didn't grow up with the gaming generation. If anything, in the next 10-15 years, gaming will become the premier arena for fostering leadership skills because you can start at such a young age.
Yes, you're not working as an "investment banker" but how is a career not a "game." Every type of game has a set of rules and learning how to overcome obstacles or make decisions is as real as it gets in any type of world.
I weep for the future.
How is it bad that group skills are being learned at a young age? The school system doesn't provide enough considering the amount of group projects that you do in middle school etc. "Weep for the future"? Weep for yourself; the future is lookin' mighty fine...
if anything i'd weep for the future of the western world's middle and lower classes, coz they'll all be unemployed or working for less than minimum by 2020, if one wants to be optimistic. all lower-end jobs and most middle-ends will be outsourced to developing economies or kept domestic at much lower wages, maybe subsidized by gov't endorsed wage-compensation, which will only make matters worse. and then there's iran and osama, who's preparing god-knows-what, and then there's friggin' reality tv... where are we headed?!?!
Well who in their right minds would say that in their interview?
...so, did you guys get Modern Warfare yet? jk
That's how this thread started. Some idiot considered talking about WoW during an interview.
Eddie, SB for that. That's bloody brilliant!
The sad part is, it sounds like a guy I know from College.
Hiring a guy like that is like hiring a junkie. He's addicted to the point he's screwing his life.
as a former WoW player, I can attest to the fact that your friend's leadership is real and planning/organizing these raids for 40 people is a challenge.
this is obviously not a direct comparison, but being a wow guild/raid leader is like being the offensive coordinator for a football team. You create the gameplan, where each person stands, the spell rotation, and what they do. It's spreadsheet worthy stuff, and it definitely speaks to your buddy's strengths.
but as a current investment banker, i would not recommend using the WoW story as an example of leadership in an interview. the problem with video games is that your leadership does not translate into results. all the time is wasted. it's not like you led a team building a house for habitat for humanity, or helped save $2MM by improving operational efficiency of your division at work. you coordinated 25 people to defeat ragnaros the firelord, and nobody is the better for it, despite all the hard work. and 99/100 people will have preconceived, negative opinions of the game.
i'm as gaming friendly as you'll find on wall street (my group works with the gaming industry) and even I wouldn't want to hear about WOW during an interview.
OP, This is probably the best advice you will find on this thread. DO NOT use video games in an interview setting EVER.
This is one of my favorite WSO threads I've ever read
what stumps me is why the hell it's still alive...
http://www.sig.com/gametheoryapp.aspx
from the horses mouth.
I'm a wow player, world ranked strategy gamer. Didn't mention them in the interviews directly but alluded to them. Now work in algo trading. Tbh in IB it might not be so good, but if you want to prove your hardcore nerd that is capable of working for hours in front of a computer while focussing on multiple things, accept no substitute.
I wouldn't put it on a CV, and if it's the only thing you can use, you might want to go and get another one. However it did me no harm. I was addicted to it, now I'm not. It generally is an escapism for people who don't like their lives. Comparing my happiness then to now, I can certainly see the correlation (off my sample size of 1).
Best advice, phone/email anonymously or under a fake name to their HR department and ask the question directly. It depends how you sell it. They will think nerd/loser/recluse when you mention it so you have to dispel that notion and show it for what it is.
p.s. Vin Diesel and Mila Kunis play it :)
There are a ton of celebs and athletes that play.
Lets see... Dave Chapelle, William Shatner, Macaully Culkin, Curt Shilling, Trey Parker, Matt Stone, Elijah Wood, Jay Mohr, Jimmy Fallon, Felicia Day all play.
Verne Troyer playes a Gnome Mage (go figure...).
Current porn star Mia Rose and retired starlet Jenna Jameson both play.
Model Adrianna Curry also plays Warcrack... apparently enjoying playing it butt naked and stoned off her ass.
And don't worry... none of the links are NSFW.
Raiding in World of Warcraft vs Ibanking (Originally Posted: 02/28/2012)
What do you think is more intense?
I think raiding is more intense none of you will ever know what it is like to wipe to a mage who can't control agro or a healer who goes afk on the pull
see this video
http://www.youtube.com/embed/8NZVWGRYcIM
this makes the lazard md who throws printers look like a wussy
also What are some lobbying tactics?
can i put models and bottles or will i get - points
the first minute was pretty amazing, lol
this is nothing compared to chew outs when you wipe to a contested and another guild grabs it :/
what is the banking version of leeeeeroy jenkins?
Dude I would give you an internship if I had one to give out.
i'm determined to make this thread his 2 pages
how many cops does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
I heard offer rates from recruit to full time raider this past summer were dismal
I don't know what's going on, but socially retarded kids always make me laugh.
This may sound ridiculous, but I actually think raiding in MMORPGs can develop pretty solid leadership skills:
I used to play Everquest intensely growing up. Unlike World of Warcraft, raiding in Everquest was TEDIOUS. Typical raids lasted a minimum of six hours (until late into the night) and when you were fighting never before defeated encounters, you'd often be hopelessly flinging yourself to your death time and time again trying to learn a little bit more each time. To be successful, often times you'd need to utilize the abilities of more than 10+ classes. Unlike WoW, Everquest abilities are EXTREMELY different for each of the classes, which meant you needed a very comprehensive set of knowledge to develop successful strategies. Even when you had the strategy developed, you needed to convey that strategy (in writing) and then execute on it in conjunction with 53 other people. Timing often needed to be perfect. On top of all this, there was extensively guild management, including managing interpersonal relationships, player schedules, conflicting desires, and usually a complex system that handled reward distribution. No easy task.
I haven't played Everquest, but I raided in the top US guild during high school and we would raid from 7p-3 or 4am easily every night. I know WoW is different now but the hours were absolutely brutal during vanilla and BC.
In general to this thread, though, I would actually appreciate working with someone who also had raid experience, as if you fuck up you get absolutely shit on, you develop a sense of team work, and you have to go hard for hours. Reading that, it sounds kind of ridiculous, but I do think the experience builds character.
I never thought I would see someone comparing leadership skills in ibanking or business for that matter, to World of Warcraft or any game even remotely close to it. In my opinion these games are very weird and definitely attract a strange fanbase
I wouldn't say it attracts a 'strange fanbase' because there's such a diverse population of players. You'll have people who take it seriously, casual gamers, competitors, raiders, roleplayers, etc. from a wide range of backgrounds. With a large game, such as an MMORPG, developers really try to attract every type of player.
I played a shitload of FFXI back in highschool...talk about tedious events. Raids had just been introduced and no one knew shit about them..spent countless hours trying to figure stuff out only to die countless times when we reached the end...we still stayed up late into the night and kept trying because everyone wanted the cool new items. God i wish i could have those hours back.
I just played football in HS. :(
My night elf priest owns you all
also wow raiding can be good for trading bc u pee in a bottle when shit hits the fan and you can't get up from your pc chair of you might get wiped by a mob !
http://www.youtube.com/embed/ffjBxA-cnbM
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