I discovered my personal boundaries
After a tough stint in Investment banking, I realised what range of hours would make me happy and allow some space for hobbies/friends and family. So, I am setting up my job hunt accordingly.
I wouldn't mind an average of 60 hours per week divided like this:
25% - 40 hours per week
50% - 60 hours per week
25% - 80 hours per week
This is my target for the ASSOCIATE LEVEL, and I would like to phase down the hours as I progress in my career.
Can you suggest PE firms in London that would suit my case?
Are there any strategies that are less demanding than the others? I am willing to accept some compensation discount(20-30%) but not ready to give up on a luring PE compensation.
After some market research, I considered focusing on Middle market PE, Growth, or Infrastructure. What are your thoughts? Is this viable?
Pension fund maybe, or asset management? LMM PE if you’re lucky to get the right team. That’s about it. MMPE is sweaty af, so is growth, so is infra.
Look at strategies that are adjacent to PE but not within traditional MM / MF buyouts. Can be credit, growth, IR, FoF, secondaries, co-invest, etc. I am in one of these and earn competitive cash comp and work ~60 hrs / week on average. The 'downside' is that there is less upside and also less prestige, so some of your former IB buddies might lose respect for you.
Isn't it crazy that people lose respect for another person just cause they moved out of PE / IB?
As someone who used to work in private credit / is currently out of PE, there's definitely a feeling that people respected me more when I was in PE. Though I do suspect some of it is in my head
Yeah people just respect people who are MF PE more (rightly or wrongly)
Prestige by definition is doing that which is hard - the harder/rarer, the more prestigious. The suffering needs to feel like it’s worth something.
Personally, I don't have that issue.
But it is like that in the industry. I prefer being happy and controlling my life rather than being respected by bankers.
Some of my ex-colleagues also shamed people who left IB for PE. "I saw that guy in the airport, with long hair and no suit..he betrayed BANKING for being a person who looks homeless."
Foolish people make these idiotic comments. I have some colleagues I respect and admire who would never say this.
I guess part of this shaming for leaving banking or PE is also envy for not being able to follow one's own interests like someone else did.
The only opinion that counts is yours.
lol a better WLB means I can do Ironman training, play padel, hit the weights, go on dates and more whenever I want, while those former IB buddies are still stressed every single weekend over v130 of a deck or model. If you're worried that your friends might lose respect for you, you need to find new friends.
infra is sweaty af don’t know where you got your intel from
+1 to this. Infra is unbelievably granular (monthly forecasts for 30 years, anyone?) and very very sweaty. Stay away if looking for lifestyle
Thanks for your insights.
I focused more on the information I wanted to believe.
Light hours in infra seem more like an exception rather than the normal. However, finding reliable data is hard since WLB may differ within the same organisation. Also, it's pretty subjective, so I focused on hours.
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/infra-pe-wlb-or-at…
"I work in PE infra and I never work more than 40h. Depends on fund to fund, for instance, guys at Antin, Brookfield or the likes work like there is no tomorrow but in the mid market space you have funds with good WLB"
I work in the mid market infra space. It's pretty sweaty. I know it's like this at other MM infra firms too.
MM and Infra PE are not going to do that for you in terms of hours. Maybe LMM PE if you're lucky enough to find a chill fund in a T2/T3 city but that's it. Growth could be a bit of a crapshoot but perhaps possible, but most of the "notable" names in growth will go beyond those hour thresholds.
For growth, how much beyond?
70 average? Or more?
I am trying to manage my expectations.
What would you say MM PE hours are on average?
I think you need to have an honest discussion with yourself. Earning PE money (even at a 20-30% discount by moving to a 'chiller' fund) requires hard work. That's the trade off.
Seriously, don't you consider an average of 60 hours of work hard work? I also clarified that I am happy to work more when needed.
With an average of 60 hours a week, you still spend most of your time working, and I don't consider that easy or lazy hours.
This honest conversation with myself about the hard work is pathetic.
People who think like you are the problem within the industry. They make it look like you have only two choices: work 90 hours a week and earn a lot, or work 40 hours and accept the bare minimum. I'm sure there are some options out there that fall somewhere in the middle.
I also want to remind you that the average working hours in the EU are 36-37. And it is still hard work. Of course, the compensation is different, but that does not mean that people don't work hard.
Indeed, look where this obsession with 90 hours leads—banking careers of few years, high turnover, stress, no life, and mental health issues. Many people do banking, hoping to get out of it ASAP. But often, moving to PE feels like banking; many hate it and move elsewhere. Illuded by the chance, they can become the few in the industry with stellar compensation, but they are just cannon fodder.
I mean 60hrs is not a lot, if you consider what business owners/doctors etc work for less money.
On a £/h basis, Private Credit is likely the area that offers the best opportunities. Not uncommon to pull £200-250k as an Associate 1 (with 2-3 outliers closer to £300k) working 50-60h/week with almost no work in August.
I personally know 2 MDs making over £1m pre-carry working around 40h a week (their job is literally just to entertain relationships with Sponsors and that's it)
Private credit and secondaries seem to be the consensus answers in this forum. If you do core infrastructure at a pension fund hours will be very chill but upside capped ( still can do fine)
Just a student but interned at one of the larger growth funds and seems like ~70 is the expectation at least at the junior level.
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