Starting my rant....
I just got asked about career planning for the move from IBD to PE, yet again.
I've a lot of sympathy for my fellow WSOers, really I do.
But I've got to tell you stop obsessing about windows to jump to the buyside.
Everyone always has some "rule" they'be heard of.
Let me list a few gems:
"You can only leave IB and jump after your second analyst year."
"You have to leave before you make VP."
"You have to go to b-school."
"You can't recruit right after b-school."
"You can't come from consulting."
"You can't jump when you're MD."
"It's a regular cycle, and I'm so off-cycle that I'm screwed."
"You can only leave IB and go to PE on Good Friday on a leap year."
I'm going postal.
Where's my M16?
Who spreads these stories?
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
I've seen people come in as analysts, from family offices with zero IBD experience.
I've seen people transfer in at every level - analyst, associate, VP, director, MD/partners who bought into the franchise.
I've seen consultants come aboard, i-bankers, a couple of lawyers, and couple of folks from TAS at bg-4s.
One guy, who started as analyst but is now MD at the region's top fund, came in from a corporate banking trainee program from S*ttygroup (ok I'll grant that's a truly rare move but still, proves a point).
There's so many WSO people fretting, scaring each other, and drumming up bullsh*t rumors about the PE industry.
Here's what you need to know.
It takes solid finance knowledge, personal relationships, some domain expertise, and friends in the industry to get you in.
That's why I think W/S/H keep getting people over to PE - because alumni hire alumni and their buddies.
But so what?
Go make a friend, network, and get in if you want it so badly.
I didn't go to H/S/W and frankly only a fraction of my industry friend did go to those schools.
The rest of us hustled in just fine anyway.
All these nutty dreamt-up rules people recite like gospel, and then godforbid plan their motherf-cking careers around..... are you kidding me?
Stay in ibanking, learn your sh*t, learn to model in your sleep, pick up your industry and know it cold, build your rolodex, then call up your buddy from your analyst class who is working at Firm XYZ to hire your ass and/or refer you around to industry friends.
Jesus,
"I can't make a move from IB to PE because it's not a full moon on a leap year."
The door is always open for a good candidate who knows his sh*t, has hustle, chutzpah, and a friend who can refer him.
Also, just so you all know, PE isn't all free blowjobs and ferraris.
It's ok work.
But it is still work.
It's still a job, and one where you're often alone at your desk, reading, writing and making Powerpoints and models.
That's not THAT cool.
I didn't grow up dreaming of doing this.
If you're in a group that invests in something interesting (to me, that's tech and healthcare) then yeah, you get to look at some pretty cool and edge sh*t.
But that's me - I'm in it for the intellectual jollies.
Mostly, you're meeting companies, doing a f-ck ton of reading of semi-interesting / non-interesting stuff, pulling together decks, doing modeling, and presenting internally.
Sound familiar?
Yup, it's like banking.
Only difference is that to an extent you get to make some decisions and have more control.
You're not shilling companies, you're rolling the dice and putting $20mn on company X.
It's still educated gambling, and really it's either A) you're making the recommendation and not in charge and your MD /partner makes the decision, or B) you are the MD and you have to make the decision (I'm sure that's stressful as f-ck.
My last employer just sh*t canned the whole IT investment group.
Everyone.
Analyst, two associates, director, and MD.
The MD got a few bad deals done, was a drag on the fund, so everyone has got to go.
Buh-bye.
So where's the blowjobs?
Where's the Ferrari?
I was told there would be Lambos.
End of the day - it's just like banking, but with perhaps a bit more control.
And in fact, not always even more money.
So please, no more of this pining and whining for the glorious window into PE.
There's no pot at the end of the rainbow.
There's some decent paychecks, but let's not pretend it's a utopia.
Try to keep a level head, use ibanking to build your skills and rolodex, make the move only when the time is right
AND you're going to the right group for the right boss and for the right money.
And keep in mind, just like with IBD, the BOSS and the group make all the difference.
I've worked for some awesome people, in a real team environment doing cool stuff, and I've worked for some unbelievable a$$holes, that made every day hell.
And I wouldn't have guessed who would be who when I signed my offer letter.
OK, rant over.
For everyone reading this, at any stage of their career, this is grade A advice.
One of the worst bosses I ever had taught me this lesson at a young age. I was in the Navy, after almost two years with the chief that I'll proudly call brother rotated out and a new chief showed up. Eager to make his mark on the division, he turned everything upside down, put in place new policies, and had a temper that you wouldn't believe.
I was the divisional LPO at the time and he was destroying what I had worked so hard to build. All this to say, we didn't get along very well. He had our guys doing maintenance on equipment outside of our scope, performing ship-alts everywhere, and he would micromanage down to the type of pen used to line out sections of procedures.
Overseas, we found ourselves drinking on the pier well past midnight one night and he dropped the best advice I ever received. He said "you can do anything you fucking want." He elaborated to say that if you work harder than everyone else, they can't say shit to you. This also means that even when there are systems and processes in place, if they are in your way and you can prove that it's better to go around them, you can.
It's simple and dumb but it led to me going to school full time for finance, while working full time as a marine engineer after I left the Navy. After graduating, I left my full time job with great benefits for an 8 week internship. I busted my ass during those 8 weeks and got the FT offer and haven't looked back since.
. If you want to leave IB at your 1.273 year mark for buy side PE, do it. If you want to be the CEO of a F500 company, do it. You can do anything you fucking want.
Thank you so much for your service to the nation. Also, you are awesome - going to school and working full-time. That's major hard core. Glad that 8 weeks turned into a career for you. Great job busting through the odds and getting the career you wanted, despite the hard work you had to do to work full time and go to school full time, and take major risks by walking away from your job for an internship whose outcome was unknown. Great job getting after it!
Never was in banking but I thought the worst part about banking is the waiting around for work in the evening. Long hours are one thing but having to waste time browsing the internet during the day only to work from night to morning is another. That coupled with browsing IG and seeing your friends having fun sounds like a recipe for thinking grass is greener elsewhere. Is this work style the case in PE?
Also, the reality is most people would MUCH MUCH rather grind a straight path than deal with ambiguity. I meet tons of people who'd like to do VC but give up before trying because recruiting is so darn vague
But yeah, that sucks.
I had a boss that would not utilize the week well enough, and every Friday at 5pm, when he walked out the door, would give me work due Monday morning. In hindsight I think he was hazing me, but yeah, it sucked.
2) Don't do that.
Do NOT compare yourself with others ever.
Run your own race. Watching someone else post the glossy parts of their life is a distraction. You do you. And for f-s sake don't use someone else's successes to make you feel bad about yourself.
3) We always think the grass is greener. That's human nature.
Your experiences and where you're drawing these case studies for comparison from are in Emerging Markets/Asia PE. This really isn't as applicable for the WSO target audience in the US. As much as I agree with the overall spirit and takeaways of your post, I think it would be beneficial to WSO readers to note that point.
In Asia, it is a lot more common to see mid-senior level PE positions being sourced from Corporate/Investment Banking (non-traditional roles in the context of US PE today), especially during the early days when the industry was just getting kickstarted. This was especially prevalent at firms where I believe you personally had exposure to (the CITICs/Hony/Boyu/CDHs of China). The megafunds also drew on this pool of talent to some extent, but placed more emphasis on senior bulge bracket bankers and had less of a disparity among their senior PE professionals as compared to the regional/local funds.
As the PE industry in Asia matures and local buyside talent becomes more abundant, it becomes less and less likely for for an unconventional background to make it over; the conventional WSO thinking around mobility into PE becomes more applicable. This is exactly what took place in the US in the past, where mid-senior banking professionals transition into the buyside/start their own PE firms, to now where nearly all mid-senior buyside talent sourced exclusively from within the industry (promotions/laterals). Exceptions to this still exist (ex. Winkelried at TPG and Gary Parr at Apollo), but those are very senior level banking hires and their roles has been non-investing related.
Tell me where the happiness or any long term feeling of satisfaction is in any part of this.
Changing your LinkedIn profile at each stage
Sure, I get that. What I'll say is probably what you already know.
There are far too many candidates for each role. That makes it difficult to break in, and just as difficult for non-standard candidates like myself to transition laterally. That can be very, very frustrating.
And to make it worse, there's often no standard onramping. Hiring happens when there is a new fund raised or the anticipation of a new fundraise being closed successfully.
Other than that, it's a relationship game. The MD knows someone they worked with in the past in banking, or they know someone from industry, or possibly even a friend referral. If there is a posting, headhunters are used extensively, as they can manage the process of sourcing really good candidates. If it's a big PE firm, they'll do associate recruiting on campuses of the top 7 MBA programs. There may also be postings to the MBA program job board, but those bring in far too many people to screen efficiently.
So, do the firms hire? Yes, they do, just not a ton of people.
I dropped some examples above, so let me go further.
My post was not intended as an "anything is possible" rant. It isn't so simple, and I'm a cautionary tale on how not anything is possible, since it's been really difficult for me to get my career back on rails. However, I'll say that in my experience the so-called fixed rules and window are imaginary, and that hiring is more ad hoc. Someone pointed out that this may be more of a factor of me living in Asia, and the rapid growth of PE out here, and I think that's actually a very fair point. In the US, things may be very different.
I also ranted against the supposed wonderfulness of being in PE, because quite frankly I sacrificed mightily to get here, and I'm deeply disillusioned. I was in a perfectly fine ibank, doing the mgmt rotation, learning ECM, equity research, S&T, and PE. I left early - possibly my biggest career mistake - to jump at a rockstar PE firm opportunity. There was nothing wrong with being at the ibank. I was getting great experience, training, and a brand name on my CV. That PE opportunity, or others like it, would have been around a couple years later.
Instead I jumped in because of a supposed window I was obsessing about, and the fear that once the firm was bigger, I'd not be able to participate. This was a folly, and I'd like others to learn from my lesson. Ultimately I lacked the deep modeling skills and deal contacts to make it to VP. I have sort of aged my way into Sr. Director via lateral hires, but I'm rarely promoted, and often fired.
Me aside tho, my point was that PE isn't some promised land. There's no promise of riches, and the work is somewhat similar to ibanking, except for some tweaks.
There's no "perfect"s in life, and chasing perfection and the supposed wonderfulness of PE has harmed me greatly. My rant was in response to another AMA, where I was asked about this mythical window, and a recent ibank joiner obsessing about it and how if he/she doesn't make the jump nearly immediately then the window closes, and he doesn't get in, and then "woe is me."
I just have a real problem with the fawning over PE. I think it leads to poor decision-making. And I have a problem with the rules people concoct re the window of making a move because most of the time the rules are based on WSO or industry rumors, and because you really never know how and when a move can be made, and it's more relationship based rather than timing base, in my experience,