Advice competing with experienced candidates for development
Hey guys, currently working at a top 10-15 IS brokerage shop in NYC. Have been working here a year and a half, but have not closed a deal. My MD has closed a deal since I've been there, but he was working on that before I got there so I was not on it. Not sure how much this affects my switch, but things are picking up in the IS market so you never know. Looking to make the switch in 6-12 months.
How can I compete against experienced hires that may have a few years of experience? It seems my timing is terrible and those who were laid off may still be looking in 6+ months. I think I need to make the switch in year 2-3 so I'm not stuck being known as a broker. Is the answer to have the story/modeling down and network? Is the answer grad school at NYU/Columbia? Seems everyone I know is going to grad school and to be honest I don't want to follow the "traditional path" (I know there's no traditional path, but seems today it's first job then grad school to get to where you want to go). I think I can get in through networking and hard work... not sure how realistic that is haha.
I don't know how much of a shot I have, but I am leaning towards starting at a well known firm that could train me or at the very least have the right/successful people I could learn from and then switch to a smaller shop if I want to - feel free to correct me here. Targets are Related, Tishman Speyer, Moinian, Extell, Vornado, and others like them. My thought process is I will have a well known firm on my resume and get valuable experience. I don't know how realistic these shops are especially with the competition in the market. If anyone could give me a reality check on the possibility of networking my way into these firms in this environment that would be helpful. Also, if anyone has advice on how to compete with people applying to these firms that would be helpful.
At the end of the day I won't be picky, but I want to have a goal. Any advice is appreciated.
First an observation...
I see threads/comments all the time on WSO about getting a grad degree vs. networking/hard work. I don't get why the appear as substitutes. It makes as much sense to me as debating going on vacation in Hawaii vs. eating a ham sandwich for lunch. Whether you go to grad school or not, you need to network and work hard. In fact, if you don't, grad school could be a big let down. OCR gets some people their post-grad school gigs, but that is less common, and one's chances are literally 100x higher if they get an internal recommendation at the big firm doing OCR.
Rant over, on to your unique question. The real thing to ask yourself is are you ready for a principal job at the kind of firm you want to work for? Do you have the skills, experience, background they want? This is different for developers vs. institutional investors vs. lenders etc. but you get the idea. If you can legit do the job you want, they applying for them should be an option. Networking is just advertising the goods, letting people you know you exist, and making they know what you can do, and what you want to do.
Going to grad school is a mix of leaning/skill improvement and training/conditioning (like balancing work and crazy requests of professors and campus policies). But that is really of semi value to most grad school applicants. They want certification and network, the ability to have common cause with alum and tell others you have this shinny degree that cost thousands of dollars. The reality is lots of principal firms (esp. in NYC) do care about grad degrees and their pedigree, some don't or could overlook it.
Your friends getting their grad degrees are your competition, so how do you rate? Sadly, I don't the value of grad degrees is going up, but the discount to not having one is.
Development in NYC, at least for NYC focused firms like the ones you specifically name, are likely to have a rough going in the short term. I personally know a person laid off from one of those firms and I think several have had to do layoffs. So, I don't expect it to be a great job market in the short term. I'm sure some hiring will occur.
If you are to be successful, you have figure out your value proposition and sell/market yourself. Personally, I would look to be as creative and flexible as possible. Consider stuff with smaller shops, other fields within and related to CRE. Survival can lead to innovation and growth. That could also mean sticking it out in IS, there may be all sorts of distress or other deals in 2021. Brokerage isn't always bad in a downturn, just having the city shutdown kinda kills deals.
I haven't been to my office in NYC since March (I live in suburbs), and will go for a visit in two weeks. With the travel restrictions and other stuff, the city is just not active. This will change, and deals will happen, so think long term before making any moves.
Thank you for your comment. I see what you're saying with the grad degree vs networking. In my opinion I think a lot of people don't take networking seriously and don't put enough effort into it (follow up when they say they will, answer after meeting at an event, reach out cold to someone they want to meet). Grad degree does have some benefits, but from my point of view it's mainly the network which if I talk to the right people I should be covered. The great thing is that you can get in front of anyone through Linkedin, email, or phone calls it's just about getting them interested and standing out. I'll look more into being flexible and seeing what's out there in the job market.
The city has been coming back - the young brokers I know are back in their office at least part time, but there's still uncertainty for what the future will hold. In general seems like those looking to buy want to see more distress and were not at that point yet. Everyone else I know in different industries besides real estate are WFH until next year at least.
Appreciate the advice.
Glad to help. I would pushback on the above statement a bit. This can be true, but that is only going to be the case for a very experienced/trained person. I.e. analyst/broker who knows real estate very well but works at a no-name or 2nd-market shop and wants to "break in" to the big leagues. If your resume and experience/training can't sell that you are able to do the job day one, a grad degree can greatly bridge the gap. I.e., highest value for those not in CRE getting into CRE (for the MSRE/D crowd).
Further, many shops flat require grad degrees to get serious consideration (you listed some by name). Again, your personal experience can overcome that, but only if you have the experience/credentials that fit the role. IS brokerage is a field that, in theory, could prepare you to go direct, and many do exactly that. The question is have you seen enough deal flow to make that jump? The general path is going to work for a client of your firm/team (or a direct competitor of your clients), so if you want to work for a client (or legit prospective client) then you have a decent chance. If you are trying to "level up" (i.e. work for a firm that realistically wouldn't use your firm's services), then it is a much steeper hill to climb.
If you are a true master salesperson/networker, I say anything is possible, and of course these moves happen. Just don't want to give you any false hope that its easy.
Thanks, to be honest it's more of a "level up". We've had conversations with some of these firms, but are middle market so not exactly the target groups depending on deal size. We've had some deals that would be at their level, but I'm more so trying to go the alumni route outside of work first to meet with people at those firms at this point. I'm sure they know of people at my shop so that could be helpful, but since I'm so new I don't have any real relationships there.
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