Hello everyone,
I'm opening up about my struggle breaking into CRE as it has become a desperate situation and I'm seeking any advice or words of encouragement I can get. Here is my story.
2008-2012
Attended a large public state school in the southeast. Changed majors a few times, decided to pursue a career in urban planning
2013-2016
My first job out of college I worked at a major, publicly-traded telecom tower company in the southeast. My job was to source opportunities to acquire rooftop space to build antennas and facilitate the acquisition and due diligence process - i.e. legal, regulatory approvals, etc. I enjoyed this work but started to get interested in finance and investment and decided I wanted to try to parlay these skills into a commercial real estate career. Started applying to some real estate analyst jobs around the end of 2016 without much success. I realized I had a lot to learn and decided I would pursue an MSRE to assist in my career pivot.
May 2017- May 2019
I left my job in May of 2017 and moved to NYC to attend NYU's MSRE program in the fall. During the program, I held internships with 3 different boutique real estate firms; two on the principal side and one debt brokerage shop. Graduated in May of this year.
Job Search
I started my job search in back January. Since then I have applied to over 700 jobs. I have had interviews at 21 different companies and only received one offer (I turned it down because it only paid $65k which would have made it very difficult in NYC especially with student loan payments - in hindsight I should have taken it, but I didn't know I would have this much difficulty finding something). Some of the interviews went on to final rounds, but I didn't receive an offer. I had phone interviews with another 25 companies that didn't lead to anything beyond a first call. I largely concentrated my search in NYC and the surrounding area, but there were a handful of applications I submitted out-of-state. I looked for analyst and associate roles for all types of real estate firms: owner operators, LP firms, banks, debt funds, development firms, brokerage shops, etc.
After 5 months of joblessness after graduation, I was unable to afford the cost of living in New York and ran out of money. I'm back home living at my parents house in my late 20s, with hefty student loan payments bearing down on me - feeling lost and dejected. I've been reflecting on my approach and why things have gone the way they have. I have a few ideas:
1) I'm in a weird in-between scenario where I am not qualified enough for associate roles and I'm competing with people who have a few years of full time experience as an analyst, but for Analyst roles I'm a bit of an odd case and I'm competing against people who are coming out of undergrad and are more traditional hires for Analyst roles.
2)Maybe CRE is much more competitive than I originally anticipated. Real Estate teams are mostly lean operations and only hire one analyst at a time, and there is a great degree of scrutiny that goes into each hiring decision.
3)Maybe being in ultra-competitive NYC didn't help my situation either. Perhaps I would be better served in a different market.
4)Maybe I just suck. I don't think I'm super awkward or anything - I have a pretty normal personality and I feel like I have been doing ok in interviews - perhaps there are some things I can work on, but for the most part I am comfortable with my interview skills.
5) Maybe I didn't do a good enough job of networking. I had a couple of coffee chats with VPs of large firms, but nothing really came out of the meetings. I had a couple of connections lead my to jobs that I ended up getting interviews for. I could have done more in this area.
My plan going forward is to spend the next couple of months at home through the holidays and work a part time job, stay sharp on my modeling, and apply for jobs. I'm considering hitting the reset button in January and using my savings to move to a new market and start from scratch - I really like the idea of living in LA for the lifestyle but understand it may have some of the same negative qualities as NYC (competitive; high cost of living). I'm also considering Chicago, Dallas, and Atlanta.
I would appreciate any comments, questions, and advice on what I should do from here. It has been a long, stressful, and exhausting process. I'm trying to stay positive and keep pushing for the hope that something will eventually go my way.
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Yes, RE is way more competitive than people realize. Barriers to entry into the industry are low. Additionally, you are not qualified for an associate level position because you have no direct experience. There has been a glut of students going into MSRE and firms know hiring one of them means a larger expected comp.
I give this advice to anyone who listens to me for breaking into RE - get certified in Argus and start marketing to yourself with intensity to investment sales and capital markets brokerage firms. These firms always have analyst turnover and always have a scarcity of go-to Argus analysts. This is a guaranteed marketable skill set that is in current demand. It is a numbers game - cold email 100+ VP's/MD's across a wide array of markets with the Argus certification in hand plus your education and you will get a hit.
Stop beating yourself up, it isn't going to help you moving forward. I obviously don't know you personally, but based on your story I have a few thoughts on how to boost your traction:
I think you need to consider running with some of the steps above for at least 3 months before you consider that you have a "problem." Crushing some old school networking like a full time job, with an NYU MSRE and 3-years of pretty relevant real estate experience...you'll be fine.
One year ago I was in your exact shoes and I couldn't understand what was "wrong with me".
Really, there was nothing wrong, its just the supply/demand of roles (RE is hot right now).
Biggest pieces of advice:
Call the decision makers (the CEO or big time broker you assume are impossible to reach), and get in front of them. Stop calling the middle or lowest people on the totem pole. It's the people at the top that make the decisions and can change your life at the snap of their fingers.
Prestige doesn't matter. Acquire a skill, and then go for prestige later. Just get your foot in the door. ..It's likely your CEO worked his way up from a smaller firm elsewhere.
Remember this experience and how painful it is. It's moments like these that build you up to be great. It's what makes you the hungriest analyst at the company; it's what makes you the hardest worker. Internalize this shit so when you get your opportunity, you never come back.
If you're targeting debt funds, devo shops, or owner operators, have you thought about appraisal?
Probably not the most glamorous way to break into the industry, but I think this is a good way to get your foot in the door and gain a solid fundamental understanding of real estate valuations, which then becomes a useful tool for lateral movements.
From experience, I found myself in appraisal shortly after graduating when I was lost trying to figure out what to do. One of the guys I worked with ended up moving to MF acquisitions at another firm, and I myself transitioned to acquisitions after doing appraisals for about 6 months. Ill never forget the experience of driving up to the middle of nowhere in the New England winter to inspect shitty REIT banking analysts, but one of the guys at my new company came up this way as well and recruiters have told me that they do consider such backgrounds.
Depending on the size of your shop, you just get such a broad exposure in valuations, from examining scope of the industry for the asset class or tenant and market demographics etc on top of the actual valuations. Knowing this helps a lot in showcasing your knowledge in interviews
@Lucky Luciano" - happy to donate a free 30min mentor sessions with someone from our mentor network in CRE. hit up WallStreetOasis.com>[email protected] with this post as a screenshot and we'll hook it up.
I think giving someone your story that you aren't trying to network with and can give you an honest quick assessment of your resume + potential interview weaknesses may give you that extra bit of polish so you can convert those final rounds to offers.
Also, what @Ricky Rosay" posted above is great advice. The "couple of coffee chats" is a red flag, especially with the high 700+ application #...
good luck! Patrick
Sent you a DM. Happy to try to help.
The advice you got above is really quite solid. I would add to it that you can walk into the room with both "gifts" and "proof."
What I mean by that is that you want to walk into a potential hiring situation with a number of deals in hand to show the person, and get them to think of you as the guy who can find and bring them unique opportunities that you have properly underwritten.
And by "proof" I mean that you can show up in the room with a printed out book of all of your NYU work, and any additional work you can showcase. Doing so changes your risk profile to the employer. You go from handwaiving and swearing that you know how to do a model, to showing them in paper form how you would have analyzed a deal how you would have put together a complex waterfall model, how you would do X,Y,Z. You help the hiring manager go from "I hope the guy can do the job" to "I know the guy can do the job because he showed me."
Happy to spend a half hour with you on the phone if it helps
A motto I always follow in life is... don’t follow the money, follow the experience and money will follow.
This is an advice for all you young people.
I wanted to provide an update as I was able to land an offer as an Analyst at a REPE shop. The advice in this thread should serve as a great resource for someone in a similarly tough spot.
Thank you for the words of wisdom @CRE_Slut" krash478 InVinoVeritas Ricky Rosay @LarrySilverstein-ish" commercialrainmaker shermanmccoy14 earthwalker7 DerivativesTrader mswoonc TheDebtStar @Champagne Sipping". And a special thanks to members who PM'd me; one of which who was nice enough to get on the phone with me and coach me through the process. That's the power of the WSO community right there. Cheers!