Hey all -
Gathered some significant attention when I posted this a couple of months ago regarding my unorthodox journey from a non-target construction focus to my current role. As it turns out, my Group Head found the post and said that it looks "mighty familiar" to someone he knows. At first, I thought I was getting fired but found out he was all for it - provided I don't name drop!
Anyways, I'm a 2-ASO @ CG, currently in the WDC area. I was recently moved over to the CRP IX team, the ninth iteration of our very successful run of United States RE funds. We closed IX in December of 2021, and have evaluated many exciting opportunities in the DMV and surrounding areas, as well as a national outreach.
That's all I can give on the specifics of my fund, and have had to clear this information with anyone I work with. While I'm not too spooked about revealing personal information, I gotta make it clear that I can't speak anything else that's CG-specific, nor any personal details such as my name (obviously) or any other NPI that could hinder future deals.
HOWEVER, I am more than willing to talk about anything in this space regarding my transition into the field, breaking in, networking, my day-to-day on the job, WBL, GC/GIS, and shooting the shit about anything else. To be honest, I'm not sure how a Q&A really works on this site, so I'll just respond when I can.
Please - don't PM me about job offers or solicit information. I'm happy to share what I can publicly, but you'd be surprised about how many people shot me PMs after my last post, which had no PII in it whatsoever. Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot right now by dropping my firm and fund name(s), but most of you all here seem to be respectful. I would love to answer any questions you all have, however - looking forward to some good conversations.
Great questions - thanks! Hope I can help:
1. Long-term is tricky at the moment. I'm in a great spot right now and would love to continue working here or at an equivalent firm for all practical purposes. The comp is great obviously, but I can't lie to you - I've learned more in working here in two years than I have my entire UG and PG education, as well as nearly every internship and former FT position I've worked at. While these experiences in the past (primarily the development and REIT gig) have provided me with the groundcover and operational experience needed to break into this role, I can confidently say that this side of equity is a whole other ball game. 99% of the world sees a building or complex go up, and thinks that it's cool and nice. But when looking at it from this side, one realizes how much damn effort goes into taking a plot of land to a functional and successful space. The amount of people who have to coordinate to make it happen, how every last dollar is scrutinized and repurposed, how international trade patterns, weather functions, local economies of unrelated products change - it's fascinating, in a way. Sometimes, it's fucking hell and you end up thinking "now why the fuck do we have to figure this out?", but I believe that under the leadership and guidance I have here, I can stay at a firm like this and learn a lot more about what we do, how it's done, and WHY we do it.
Now, there's that. But I've also dreamed of running my own business someday, and when I'm in a mental and financial spot to do so, I know it'll happen. You see YouTube videos of guys who look ridiculously wealthy doing real estate, and I think it gives people the sense that the ceiling is that high for every position in this field. Unfortunately, it's not. Even when I get carry realized in the future, one has to think about the scope of the deals that are worked on, and how much of that is actually being trickled down to you. Hypothetically, if I was to take a 1% float from a $50m deal - great! That's a nice chunk of change in my pocket. But I believe the REAL money in RE comes from smaller, more stringent deals that are done by an individual or smaller partnership. Yes, it's easy to look at a $750m complex closing and think "wow, look at that huge project and that huge money" but then you gotta think about how much of that ends up in your personal account, not the cushy corporate slush fund. I think that the "prestige" and "brand-name" of firms may hinder that. Obviously, opening your own shop is going to be risky and take a huge financial and mental strain on you by getting it off the ground, but I think that one day I'll be up for the challenge. Until then, I'm keen to keep learning my way around this incredibly complex space of work and hope that I can make some good coin of my own through it.
2. Wow - that first question was a lot of words. I'll try to slim it down now. For future RE opportunities? ULI list is always a good place to start, and if I was to open my own shop I'd 100% start with one of those. From a personal perspective, I see national and international growers being in Nashville, Austin, DFW, Atlanta, and Denver (although I'm a bit late to that one). NY/SF/LA is where the big bucks are made, but a) that'll change someday and b) it's hard as shit to start something there. I'd also love to check out some international spots - take a look at South Portugal's mortgage rates. Honestly, gotta say with this market, I wish I had a clearer pinpoint but everything is changing so fast that I'm finding it hard to keep up. I still think that EVERYONE is sleeping on IRE in general. It's by far the most stable, diverse, and hell - it's just less of a pain in the ass, when you consider vacancy rates, refurbish/maintenance costs, and retrofits. Specialized equipment facilities, for one, are also something we've been looking at. High-precision complexes with a very specific market of clients who will pay a premium for the extra dollar, things like that.
3. In terms of interest-specific cost, I'd say eh. Interest rates are gonna keep going up. A quarter-point isn't gonna do shit for anybody in the near term, but to be honest, I'm not that involved in the property visitation checklist routine that we have, at least not at the moment. If you're referring to residential specifically, we often hire out our management companies who we have good relationships with, pay 'em a buck or so to control operations specifically. Takes away a lot of the headache, but I do know we have reps who pop by to future, precon, top-out, and functional sites just to check-in without prompt. Obviously, if we're notified of an issue, we head our asses over there for the developments I specifically represent, not that much communication. It may sound bad, but hiring out to third-party for management streamlines a lot of the process, and filters out the complaints that don't actually have any weight. If any of that makes sense, LOL.
4. Ah, there it is! I mentioned this to another user, but my comp index spread was a little "off" of what one would ordinarily expect in straight PE or REPE for that matter. 2-ASO average is around $250 all-in, which is a tad more than I make at the moment, but can you really complain if you're 31 and making that kind of money? Ha! Carry and/or stock options aren't realized until VP as a threshold, but over here it's case-by-case primarily. I know a couple of Senior Associates who have a tad bit of stock options, but that's by comp request only and not added to a bonus as a baseline. Flat-rate carry is 1% for VPs AFAIK, and once you move up from there there's a variety of other funds that one can take advantage of - flat equity pools, KEIP (incentive programs), as well as the generic carried interest and other equity grants. My ears are too young to hear those words, however - maybe someday! I think VP flat (speaking for CRP and DMV-area specific here is around $220, while bonuses range anywhere from $140-250 on a good year. Stock options alone account for some $60-70, but carry is impossible to predict unless you know the person - I've seen VPs who go 3 years without making a dime, then one year they pull in a nice $5m. Funny how that works!
Hope this answers everything. Sorry for the wall of text. I took a Trazodone to help me sleep last night and I can still feel it right now, I'm kind of groggy. Thanks for the question!
I’m looking at getting into development. Currently have a real estate & finance major, did a construction background help you break in? Currently considering, but am wary of the transition from finance to construction
Not OP, but I did engineering undergrad, then work in construction and to get to development I got an MBA. Most developers usually value a finance background since ultimately the work you are doing is supporting a financial business model, especially for analysts/associates since at that level you're spending a lot of time in models. I came from construction and do project management work, but a developer wouldn't touch me until I got my MBA because I didn't have any finance knowledge. If you are dead set on development, then I'd recommend trying to get work for one or at a REPE shop, just learn all you can about the underwriting/dealmaking process, you won't need to learn construction in too much depth and you can pick up enough to be a decent developer from just working on the dev side without any GC experience.
Could you speak to the culture at CG a bit (I know this might be hard as groups are different)? It’s rather hard to find info on this and I’m very interested in the general atmosphere for reason you could probably guess .
A tad bit tricky here for a couple of reasons, but I'll do my best. As you mentioned, every group and subgroup will have a different outlook on their job as a whole. A capital markets analyst working for different VPs will most likely tell you another story than an energy assets associate who has a whole different perspective on the job, may work different hours and tackles different sorts of problems throughout their DtD. I'll speak on what I know, but also gotta make sure that I'm speaking from a personal perspective, and obviously silly boilerplate here of yada yada yada these are my own personal opinions and do not reflect those of Carlyle Group, Inc. and their affiliates so I don't get burned - gotta cover.
As I mentioned in my previous post, my superiors have been receptive and understanding of my past. This is finance. It's fuckin' hard. You're gonna get yelled at, clients and coworkers are gonna take out their anger on you, you'll feel burned and unfairly treated at times. But it's cyclical, and it in no way compares to some of the stories I've heard. There are plenty of people I work with who I would love nothing more than to hit a quick 9-hole run with while drinking some beers, and there are people who most of the time I would greatly enjoy showing them my recent boxing improvements. The latter, however, is much more sparse than the former - which I am damn grateful for. As I said, I am not a finance macho hardo. I am not cut out for investment banking. At the risk of getting too personal, I suffered greatly in my early 20's from depression and anxiety, never really opening up with the exception of my family and close friends. I didn't know if someone like me could survive in a world like this, as my image of finance was painted 100% through TV shows and ill-represented preconceived depictions of constant pain and suffering. Simply put - this just ain't how it works, especially not where I'm at.
I guess the best image I can give to you is an average day on the job. Since I don't have set hours I work, I'm not required to be in the office at any set time and I can leave pretty much whenever I want, as long as I don't have anywhere I have to be in-person for, like a meeting, site visit, client brief, or external discussion. Now I say these things, but don't think that I'm not in the office for a long time every day. This is driven by two things: one, I have a lot of fuckin' meetings. There are a lot of things I can access only in-office, which is primarily security-based for no other reason. For instance, a lot of Carlyle's portal is not accessible thru my personal laptop, and I usually have to be on a secure network to pull data and work in an efficient way. Being in the office just makes that a lot fuckin' easier. The other reason is just personal preference. I talked a bit about WFH earlier, and the truth is that I just HAVE to get out of my apartment sometimes. It's great occasionally to throw on some pajamas and get all comfy in my robe, but that's fun for about a week before you realize your life is confined to your living room, bedroom, and home office.
I seem to enjoy getting off-topic, so I'll try to get back here: let's say I'm in the office at 7:30. Usually, the first 30 min or so is responding to emails, setting up some things in my calendar, and writing day-to-day and week-to-week immediate tasks in order of priority. I have this brown notebook that I've used to fill my days since 2017, and if I lost that notebook I think I'd go ballistic - it has everything! Non-client-facing and internal meetings primarily fill up my AM, which I head to for most of the morning while balancing my ongoing projects at my desk. While we don't have a "lunch break" per-say, I try to eat around 12:30 either at my desk or go out to this Chipotle nearby where every employee knows me by name now. External meetings fill my early and late afternoon, and it's just a time balance at that point - trying to get my own shit done while still meeting everyone I can. Some of my team's clients who I like the most and have broached a more personal-level relationship with come later in the evening - we may go for a drink, hit up the golf simulator, or just hang out and shoot the shit in the park. Those are my favorite parts of my job - hanging out with guys and gals worth nine figures in a more casual setting, while still being business-oriented is a great perk of finance. It's enjoyable to speak with someone on a personal level, and also you feel all super cool in shit in your Midtown Uniform while trying not to think about how much of a douchebag you sound like. I'm only half-kidding!
That's the general day. Throughout the day, I speak with probably an average of 75-150 people, whether they're coworkers, superiors, external people, clients themselves, client representatives, as well as general housekeeping things. I can't speak for the average culture of those outside my organization (and more or less my direct team), but I gotta say that I love the culture here. This isn't Midtown - there's a lot less slicked-back hair and vests here, and more Rhone pants and smiles. The douchebag culture is turned down significantly, and my direct superiors are mostly very nice and easily-approachable people. I won't attempt to shill Carlyle one way or the other, and as I said - I"m sure there are other people on this forum who work for my same firm, maybe even some in my same location who are scratching their heads wondering how I got so lucky. But I like it here. I like who I work with, I like my hours, I fuckin' love my pay (LOL, sorry I had to), and I like working for this team. It's not sunshine and rainbows, and we work hard as shit. But at least here, you get less of the "get 110% on every project no exceptions and even when you do I'll still be disappointed" spiel and more of the "we expect results and performance from you but when you get it we will appreciate you, and if you don't we're not gonna make your life miserable" which I greatly appreciate. I think in general the "Work Hard Play Hard" thing is cliche, but it really applies to me.
Overall, I think you could probably tell from this wall of text that I fuckin' love who I work with. And I'm lucky that I'm in that position. Coming from my background when I thought I'd never make it brings a new sense of pride and enjoyment from that area also if that makes sense. Like you mentioned, I can PROBABLY guess why you're asking this question and want to let you know that I am more than happy to open a more private channel if you'd like to know more. Happy to help out in any way I can.
Best of luck to you and hope to see you around these parts soon! Be well.
Thank you for doing the AMA.
How did you cultivate+develop your technical skills to obtain the job and keep the job with the REIT; and then ultimately with Carlyle?
What realistic tips would you give someone going down a similar path to gain the modeling skills you needed to thrive in each of those positions.
I understand you did an MBA and that may have provided an end-run on (some of) those critical skill-sets.
Thanks for the reply! Sorry, it's taken a bit. Have had to work a lot this week, and am answering when I can. To anyone else reading this, if you've asked a question & I haven't gotten back to you, just know that it'll come eventually - gotta prioritize my time.
Anyways, the technical skills question is great. As you mentioned, my MBA did significantly help me pivot from a construction-oriented background to a more financial-related gig, but even before that, I felt that I had a good grasp of the real estate world specifically. My original role at the developer was my first toe-in-the-water experience at the financial side of things, as with the exception of maybe 2-3 finance classes at Virginia Tech I had ZERO financial experience. Those questions were hard then - for many of us, they may not seem like the hardest things but DAMN were they a shock to me at the time. Going from concrete to rebar QTO specifications to 7-cap leverage at 40% with cash-on-cash return while dealing 5% interest questions were not the easiest thing for a construction guy to grasp.
For better or worse, someone literally leaked the interview questions for my exact position at the developer about a month before my interview. While I wasn't banking on being asked those exact questions (I figured that firm would shuffle them around pretty quickly once they found out), it did give me a much better insight into the things that I would have to nail while jumping into this space. I think a lot of guys in my undergrad are doing development now, but they had 4-5 years of GC Project Manager or Superintendent experience before either lateralling straight into development or having an MBA to help with the switch. I got lucky. I was able to get that gig straight out of undergrad, but it was a very hard learning curve for me.
Technical skills for the REIT job were a lot easier. By then, I had two years of pure financially-based classes focusing solely on what I'd be asked later in that interview room, as well as three years doing financial underwriting and working with capital markets development teams. I knew a bit more about how the game was played and found that the technical skills were more of the less the exact same as my prior role, but with a more investment-based approach and less of an operations and site prep approach. I like the Calculus theory - 95% of people aren't going to use Calc for a second in their careers after final college class in it. So why do they teach it? They teach it because it's less about the CONTENT and more about testing individuals on how to apply the methods they use to come up with an individual answer - learning how to SET UP the equation, which buttons to push on the calculator, the right steps to take in the right order, and how to ultimately simplify and note the solution. It's the same thing with any technical skill here - the computers will do the grunt work, you just gotta know which buttons to press.
That's how it went from there on out. While I can't lie - private equity is a whole different side of the real estate world, it's more or less the exact same thing when it comes to technical skills and what is done in that field. The content is different. The equations are different. The numbers are different and they're applied in different ways. But it's still testing your competence, drive, problem-solving, and self-discipline skills. If you can figure that part out, you can go literally anywhere in finance. Just gotta know what to look for.
You mentioned realistic tips needed to form a similar path - OBSERVE AND LISTEN TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE DO. I did that in every aspect of climbing the ladder in the past, and do it today. Yes, there's the obvious path to cut through - polish your resume. Work on your people skills. Do LBO modeling and practice your IRR, NOI, equity multiple, etc. But if you really want to see what makes people successful in this field, you just gotta take mental notes on what others do and how they go about their process of winning in this game. I didn't come from the standard background, as I've mentioned - I swear half the people in finance think it's ALWAYS T10 Undergrad -> 2yrs IB -> Ivy MBA -> 2yrs PE -> HF/VC/CO. If you wanna see my route it was more like Random UG w/ Random Major -> 3yrs Development -> T25 MBA -> 3yrs REIT -> 3yrs REPE -> Death Soon and it just mixes and matches in so many different places.
If you want to work in REPE, you'll work in REPE. It may not be the clear-cut path, and it damn sure won't be easy. It'll suck sometimes, and you'll wish you became a gym teacher, but in the end it's worth it. Plenty of ways to touch up on modeling skills, thousands of resources online!