I'm seeing a lot of MSRE/MRED questions lately as people are either choosing between programs, getting ready to start programs in a few months, or thinking about applying for 2018. I am a recent Master of Real Estate graduate and I know we have a lot of current and former students on this board who can also provide solid insight, so if you have any questions, ask away. Don't just wait for my answers either - anyone can respond.
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A little bit of everything. I was a market research analyst and an office leasing broker at a big name shop in a mid market, did multifamily operations for a family office in a mid-market, and then did acquisitions for a value-add shop in a mid market.
Earlier than I did. I think if you're going to do it, you don't want to approach it in the same way you approach a MBA. That leads me to...
Nope. If I were to do it again, I would have done it as soon as I realized brokerage wasn't for me and I set my sights on development. Instead, I spent two years in semi-related roles that weren't development, and while I gained some insight, ultimately I'm just two years behind.
Getting my Master of Real Estate accomplished everything I wanted it to accomplish and then some, so don't get me wrong, but 90% of the classes were remedial for me. These programs are made up about 1/3 people like me with some experience looking to get to the next level, 1/3 people straight out of undergrad (usually with very wealthy and in-industry fathers), and 1/3 construction or architecture people trying to get to the dark side. Thus, when you're in classes, 1/3 of your class won't understand what Floor Area Ratio means or what a net lease is, and a different 1/3 won't understand how you calculate a cap rate, much less how to do it in Excel.
There is nothing wrong with any of that - school is literally a place to learn - but the 1/3 of us who knew all of that and wanted to both think of real estate on a higher level and also get deep into the weeds on certain subjects were rolling our eyes and falling asleep in class until the end of the program. Had I done the program two years sooner, a lot of that stuff would have been new to me.
As far as the degree being industry-specific, if you don't know you're a real estate person, don't do the degree. MBAs are far more versatile.
OCI at smaller or less prestigious schools is probably inferior in general (I know it is compared to Cornell, for instance) but that never bothered me. I actually got my summer associate spot through OCI but other than that I'm a huge advocate of cold emails, networking calls, driving 2.5 hours to grab coffee with an exec, etc. You have to be able to pound pavement in real estate in general, and the network I created through relentless networking directly set me up for my current position. By the time I met with my now-bosses, I had 3 different mutual connections that went to bat for me.
This wasn't your question, but in a larger sense, I hardly felt any "prestige discrimination" in my internship hunt or job hunt - and definitely none in an institutional sense. There is one guy in particular who I will remember for a long time because he was a douchebag about it, but I interviewed at a number of "Top 25" multifamily firms, plus Related, Hines, Jamestown, Skanska, etc. and never felt like I was lesser than anyone else because I didn't go to an Ivy league school. Perhaps that's why I didn't get certain positions in the end, but I'm at peace with that if it's the case.
In development, certainly more than REPE, most people don't even have graduate degrees. It's very much a learn on the job type of industry and I was actually over-educated but under-experienced, if you know what I mean, when I was interviewing for roles. Plus, you never know who is involved in your program. I count the global head of real estate at a major life co and the former COO of one of the largest office REITs in the world as personal mentors and I call them up every now and then for career/life advice. Neither of these guys are Ivy-league, but their dicks swing just as big.
Very torn, but 2-year programs are going to become less and less popular. Clemson just switched theirs from 24 months to 12 or 18 months, depending on experience. I picked a 2-year program (specifically over 1-year Johns Hopkins and 2-3 year evening school at Georgetown) because I really wanted that summer associate experience. I got it, and got my current job partially because of both the experience and the connections I made at it, so I clearly made a good choice, but the lost income and general draw-out nature of a two year program do make me second guess it from time to time. Had I the choice again, with what I know now, I'm not sure I'd make the same decision.
I think the more direct experience you have, the shorter your chosen program should be.
Roughly: 50% Development 25% REPE 15% Working for daddy or daddy's friends doing who knows what 5% Brokerage or Market Analysis 5% Unknown/Unemployed Zero banking (both zero interest and, let's be honest, zero preftige).
Base salary $60k-$80K but total comp all over the board, way too hard to break down in value person to person, and some people I don't talk to enough to get into that. In general, development pays lower than REPE out of the gate, but you don't get into development to make bank in year 1.
I think last year we had a MAcc grad, but in general I think it's probably a waste. Maybe if you get a full ride and don't feel like working for a bit it's a good option because you will learn some things, but all a masters degree does is make you look better than other applicants. If you already check that box (and you're undoubtedly better at finance, in your example, than you will ever need to be), you'd be better served interning, working in-industry, networking into better roles, etc.
A few things:
I knew I wanted real estate. I've flirted with some other career paths from time to time when I found myself discouraged with my role, and probably some 4-5 year old posts on this website confirm that, but when it came down to it, I knew I was a real estate guy and I knew I wanted to be a developer.
I had a good friend from college whom I worked with when I was at the brokerage shop. He went back to Georgetown's program and his career skyrocketed. He got a job with a well-known debt brokerage shop in NYC and is doing very well for himself. It showed me what the degree could do.
Master in Real Estate programs in general are much, much cheaper than MBA programs. I was already $50k in debt from undergrad and wasn't looking to take out another $150k.
My undergraduate GPA was atrocious - sub 3.0 - due to a host of dumb reasons that are no longer relevant to my life. I'd tell the story but it would out me even more than I already am. Anyhow, most Master of Real Estate programs a) allow you to take the GRE, which IMO is a much easier test and, b) Don't give two shits about your GPA because there are no rankings they have to appease. I had already overcome that GPA many times over in life, but I wasn't going to overcome it in the MBA admissions process.
Between the MBA and the Master in Real Estate? Either or, or neither even. My Master in Real Estate didn't focus on value add at all really and I doubt many MBA programs get that granular. My time with that company was about 1/3 running models, 1/3 helping pick out paint colors and fixtures and the like, and 1/3 doing due diligence walks for potential acquisitions. I loved the first two and hated the third, but man did I run into some weird shit during due diligence walks, including:
Of course. This site has helped me a lot. Make sure you give back when you can.
It depends how you define effective. I made some fantastic connections that ultimately helped me via reaching out in the fall, but I didn't get a job until last minute, as you said. I would still do it.
I played a lot of golf too, don't get me wrong. Almost got an Eagle two days ago, but I two-putted after driving the green on a short Par 4. Ridiculous.
Anyhow, the people who networked definitely got a better result. I have one classmate who still isn't employed because he didn't put the effort in. Smart kid too, but rather shy.
I got hit with the master stroke of salary negotiating by my company. The problem with negotiating salary with people who negotiate for a living is that they're a lot better than you. They told me long stories about how people took haircuts to work there because of the opportunity, how they started with pitiful salaries when they got into the business, and most importantly, how if I was the kind of low-risk loser who was looking for a paycheck and not the upside I shouldn't be in the business anyhow. It's like when you hit a bump on the road and for a moment you see the coffee fly into the air. It hasn't hit you yet, and you know what's coming, but you're powerless to stop it.
I also was at a strange disadvantage in that my second best deal wasn't in development. The company was far more prestigious, but it was an Asset Management role. The base would have been higher, but it's not a comparable position and I definitely wanted development over all.
The big thing here is that comp in development varies wildly in amount and structure across markets, product types, companies, etc. I have a mediocre base, but a 20% bonus, full benefits, cell reimbursement, company card, etc. but, most importantly, I am gifted a half a percent equity in every deal. This was a big draw for me. Once I start running projects on my own, I'll also get benchmark bonuses and that equity % will go up.
Other companies can, and probably do, have extremely different comp structures. Had I worked full time for the company I worked for last summer, my comp would have been $15k more base, 20% personal bonus, 10% project performance bonus (so up to 10% more bonus), worse benefits, and no equity. It's all about what you value.
Monday mornings start with an office-wide meeting where everyone catches up on what they've done for the week. It's a good time for the principals to both get and idea on what's going on and give advice/guidance to DMs and ADMs about how to solve issues that arise. The rest of Monday is usually catching up/office work - coordinating future meetings between 20+ vendors, responding to emails, getting documents signed and scanned, getting checks mailed/delivered, etc. Last Monday I had to get a $300,000.00+ check for sewer fees cut and delivered to the city.
Tuesday is all day on-site for a complicated job I'm on. It's a town center mixed-use deal with MF, Office, Retail, and Restaurant and it's being developed by 3 development companies, 3 contractors, and as a result takes a lot of time and effort on coordination. We're the master developers too, so it's more time and effort for us. This week we had a utility coordination meeting, a MF fixtures and finishes coordination meeting, and a meeting about parking deck lighting options in the morning, and then our standard Owner/Architect/Contractor meeting all afternoon.
Wednesdays are either out of town for all of the above for a student housing job I'm on in a different city, or another office day. Last Wednesday I had to write two executive summaries, set up some more meetings, and put out fires here and there. This Wednesday I'm putting together a presentation for our investors, touring a deal the company did last year that won all sorts of awards to learn best practices/areas to improve on, and then going to a party put on by Google Fiber. I stopped writing this at 9:30 because random shit came up. One of our development partners isn't getting information to us and our third partner in a timely manner. We need the electrical plans for the retail trash compactor ASAP and they're holding it up. Now it's 11:30 and I'm resuming.
Thursday is an open morning that I use to network/put out fires, etc. Next week I'm going to a ULI thing, for instance. Thursday afternoon is OAC meetings with another job I'm on. Next Thursday I'm going to a beer launch party with a movie studio. I didn't know those existed, but it sounds cool.
Friday is everything that couldn't fit into Monday through Thursday. So getting updates, giving updates, looking at new deals, underwriting, prepping next week's schedule, putting out some more fires, etc. Last Friday I had to get a $875.00 check cut because when we handled the $300k+ check for sewer fees, our consultant forgot something. Drove that to the city.
Zero weekend work so far, which is awesome. Going to get my golf swing analyzed this Saturday and then hopefully not be so awful when I play 18 Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning. Everyone in the office either hunts, cycles, or golfs. I'm not a good old boy even though I've been hunting, and I definitely don't bike, so I gotta get my golf game up.
Depends on a few things:
Its not a problem. Before the master, I will go to language school and practice almost 6 months. All I need learn much words and improve my speech . My plan is stay USA. And I hope your knowledge , experience and ideas can be great for me .
@CRE Really appreciate you taking the time to start this thread and offer guidance. It’s incredibly insightful!
I am two years into a small retail leasing/sales brokerage shop and have been strongly considering making a switch into development. I find myself increasingly more interested in learning how projects are put together from the start, being able to make more of a “mark” on my community with an eye-catching/creative product, and I’m concerned that brokerage, while shaping up to be very lucrative, will make me more rich than wealthy. I eventually want to build equity in projects verses collecting fees.
I do work with a handful of preferred retail developers and feel like working for them eventually would be a logical next step, however the only value I provide is via brokerage (site selection, network of retailers/restaurant groups, deal negotiation) and I have no experience working in finance, entitlements, planning, etc. In your opinion would a MSRE/MSRED be a worthwhile investment to bridge this gap, or should I try to get hired by a developer without the degree?
Also, did the MSRE give you enough confidence to go out on your own and do your own deals? Or is on the job experience a must for this?