This environment is hell for an ambitious person
How are you dealing with it? Career timeline getting knocked off, goals not being met.
Want to fix it and ask my boss for things to help out with and additional responsibility but feel like I’m annoying them when doing so. Right now I feel like I’m Playing a cat and mouse game with bringing up to boss unhappiness which could mean risking bonus. Acquisitions person.
Really really struggling mentally. Know too much of my self worth is driven by my career. Appreciate any advice of how you all are staying afloat and not letting it get to you.
If you're in acquisitions then be quiet and keep your head down. This is going to be a tough period so just be fortunate you have a job.
This. Good times create weak men...don't be a weak man at the first sign of tough times in 15 years. We might all be in this shitstorm longer than we expect / want, so be happy you even have a job in acquisitions right now. I've been hearing about many folks quietly losing jobs in that vertical. Any day the same might happen to you. So if you wanna rock the boat at this point in time god speed. The real issue is that too much of your self worth is tied to your career / success. You have to ask yourself if you are a person that lives to work, or works to live. I used to be in the same boat, but then I realized two things: 1) life is too short to slave away all your time for your career 2) absolutely no one gives a fuck how preftigous your job is besides other people with the same problem on LinkedIn jerking off to each others profiles. If you are constantly comparing yourself to others, especially career wise, you will never be happy I can guarantee it. Some guy at BX that worked 100 hour weeks for a decade will be more successful/rich than you (if that's you're measure of success). Focus on the progress you have made in your own life not others. I sometimes felt I was falling behind earlier in my career, but then I remembered where I started (broke immigrant with no connections) and it helped me shed that toxic psychological burden for good. Now I only look ahead to my next goals and my plan to get there. And almost always the plan changes along the way cuz that's life. Oh you thought you were gonna be a millionare by 30 but the macro decided to fuck your timeline? Well tough shit, stay focused and keep grinding you'll get there eventually if you really want it. And in the meantime, learn to be grateful for what you do have instead of complaining about what you don't have.
Will echo both of the above posts.
You can't imagine how incensed I would be if an Analyst or Associate approached me to voice their unhappiness about the current operating environment and how it is negatively impacting their feelings, potential bonus, or career progression. The only imaginable way it could be worse was if that person was a Director, who should know better.
Instead, you should be finding other means to make yourself useful and productive, either in your role or by attempting to help others. I'd imagine there is plenty of asset management work that could use another set of eyes or a helping hand. Why not dig into some operating statements of current properties and see if there is a way to improve operations? Can you improve underwriting models or processes? So on and so forth.
Know that most are in the same boat right now, so not like you are losing ground. I’m telling myself that loyalty will pay off if you can stick around and grind it out. That’s a personal assessment of my team, but you have to make your own assessment. It’s a long game. Learn as much as you can about this environment. Get your hands dirty in some asset management so you understand that piece of the equation better. Take the time to develop and maintain relationships. The good times will come back…how can you position yourself today to maximize earning potential when that time comes. Don’t waste it!
I would argue the opposite. You can learn more about this industry from/during downturns than you can when the market is skyrocketing and deal volume is through the roof. What you learn now is what might make or break you during the next upswing.
Also, your career is likely going to last 30 plus years. You have no idea what unexpected turns will come during that time so relax about your "timeline" deviating from your expectations. Life isn't linear. Nearly every MD out there has learned from at least one downturn.
I learned a ton during first 6 months of covid with all our development projects, remedies for delay, et al. I can genuinely say I don’t think I’ve learned anything the past 9 months. There is nothing to do besides watch this slow motion trainwreck unfold.
If you truly haven't learned anything in the last 9 months... then you're doing it wrong. All of it. In this environment? That's, uh, not conceivable. If you are in fact an analyst involved in things. Nothing to do? Please.
take a vacation, man
Also I would add, stop asking for extra work or letting them know you're bored/unhappy. Your boss is also pretty unhappy right now too I bet. Why add onto their stress? There is nothing you can do about the environment. Collect the paycheck and dont say anything. I've had so many of my friends, that are incredibly talented lose their jobs this year. They would all kill to be in your position. You've been hardwired to think that career progression and becoming a real estate tycoon happens within 10 years, I hate to break it to you but it takes serious time. The greats of the RE world truly made it way later in their life.
Yep, people don't understand that outside of all the bullshit tech "disruptors" it is insanely difficult to make a ton of money very quickly. Even in finance, it's not til you are in your mid 30s that you're banking the kinds of bonuses that lead to generational wealth, and in real estate, where the point of the game isn't to screw over the taxpayer and your investor, that can take even longer, because building a legitimate business involves doing right by people.
In real estate, the big money comes from carry. And since even short term deals are measured in years and not months, that means even if you're getting big carry at 35, you'll be in your 40s before it starts really getting monetized.
This issue is going to be common across all industries as we see higher interest rates climb. Tech is feeling this too, layoffs are ahead of us and the company I work for will shed a significant amount of people. Markets are saturated with mid, senior level engineers looking for work right now. Most of the work is/will be sent overseas.
Pour one out for the good times of '18-'21, long gone.
Seriously though, I at least feel better about lack of activity viewed through the lens of what just happened for the last 4 years was absolutely sensational.
"Career timeline getting knocked off, goals not being met."
Welcome to the rest of your life. Things far outside of your control are going to continue knocking around your timeline and messing with your goals for as long as you live.
This may shock you, but your boss and your firm don't exist in order to maximize your happiness and professional fulfillment.
In general, the most valuable lesson you can learn is that no matter what your role is, you are not the main character in the story being told. Your boss and your principals are probably losing tons of sleep right now as they try and retrench and save what they can, partially so they can keep paying your salary - they don't, and shouldn't, give a shit that you feel like your career is 4 months delayed.
If you need your job to be fulfilled, then find a hobby. Your job shouldn't be the cause of your personal happiness; that is super unhealthy and there will always be times when shit isn't going perfectly at work, and you need to figure out how to work through that. If it's slow at the office, take the time to figure out something you actually enjoy doing outside of real estate. Honestly, it'll be helpful anyway - as much as we all like to celebrate folks who are monomaniacal about their jobs, when you get to a senior level position where networking becomes important, having a topic to relate to someone over besides "deals" is a major advantage.
But bro! His timeline is off!
Almost ALL industries are facing the same issue. Interest rates are climbing quickly and my friends in tech/healthcare/sales are all facing the same issue. Layoffs are ahead of us and markets are filled with staff, engineers, analysts and associates everywhere. Good times really do create weak men and you have to decide whether you're going to be ambitious and make something out of yourself or whether you are content with what you have.
I work in tech. It is projected that the company will shed 30% of its workforce in our city soon. We are looking at around 4000-5000 workers (engineers) being let go...hopefully the rumors and discussions are wrong about it, but based on the events we are seeing unfold in the office, most likely. The temp employees are almost all out of the offices already too (tech wise), being that the engineers left last week and the support staff are gone next week.
I reached out to many folks about possible transitions - for me all I care about is work, (really any), to keep me busy while interviewing. They care more about prestigious nature of the company and such. In my thoughts, I feel its utter nonsense. Work is work. Do not let your job be your identity.
Consider it a life lesson. Life is gonna kick u in the balls many times. Learn how to deal with tough periods in life - nobody makes it through without some scars.
If you can keep your job and get back on track soon, consider it a soft ball lesson. Harder pitches will undoubtedly come. Doesn’t matter what industry you’re in, who you marry, or how many kids you have…
Go tell your boss (who probably just watched $3 million of carried interest evaporate over the past 18 months) that you’re not happy you’re getting enough deal reps in. See how he responds
Yoda is wise - listen to Yoda:
"All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. What he was doing."
Now read the rest of these comments about life not EVER working out the way you expect it to. Especially in the financial services industry. Cycles are normal, you got into at a bad time. Wah wah wah, fetch me a crying towel. I got into the business at the beginning of 2009. You think that was a good time? You think TiMeLiNeS worked out for people then? Get over yourself.
Listen to the comments here that say you will learn more in hard times than in good. If you don't internalize that reality and act accordingly, you will forever be behind on your precious career.
Stop having this pre-planned "career timeline" or "trajectory" or comprehensive and detailed "life plan." Just calm down, take a breath, and measure where you actually are. If you are good at what you do and you are patient, then it is never a bad time to be ambitious. It is always a bad time to be stupid and lose sight of where you are, what you have, and why you're there. Eisenhower said something along the lines of "Plans are useless once you make contact with the enemy, but the process of planning is invaluable." So please, get over your "plans" being disrupted by real life and learn to adjust those plans on the fly like everybody else in the world and you'll be better for it. Do it not and you'll forever be making posts like this.
What a lot of people don't understand is that patience is a super important charactersitic for your career. Just like being diligent or smart or ambitious and hard-working. It doesn't get enough credit as an important building block.
Just like sometimes, you have to work until 1 a.m. in the morning sometimes you need the patience and endurance to make it through an 18-month slow stretch where nothing seems to be happening in your career. Of course, I caveat this with avoiding complacency and using patience as an excuse to not look for other opportunities. If you get to the point that you are so "ambitious" that you can't wait for things to change....maybe you're actually reckless and impatient rather than ambitious. The most ambitious thing may be to keep your head down, bide your time, and wait for the right moment to come. Real ambition looks at a timeline of 20 to 30 years....childish ambition looks at things 1 or 2 years out.
Times like now can actually be the path to rising in ranks compared to 2016-2021. A lot of your Gen x and Gen y bosses got a bump 08+ because they proved themselves and were a cheaper alternative to older management. Not saying that’s more than likely but it can be a good time for the younger crowd since the value provided for cost might not fit in today’s environment. That’s one positive outlook for you
I'm going to take a slightly more positive tone than others. This is the time when you need to demonstrate value to your firm. You need to make yourself busy, even if it feels like there is nothing happening. I'm sure there are about 100 "projects" that were sidelined when times were busy. Be the guy that picks those up and acts on them. Figure out new markets. New product types. Upgrade internal systems and processes. Learn new skills. It's really really hard when there isn't that next deal to work on. You want to be a killer in your career? Now's the time. People aren't going to be handing you things to do as you progress. You have to figure out where to spend your time and resources.
This is IT.
And I just wanted to add, people should be working hard to be the best at not getting fired. Make your self indispensable. So much so that even if you do get fired your boss will call people on your behalf to land you a job.
Nobody likes an ingrate or a whiner.
Try to detach yourself from your role. Those should be 2 diff individuals, and the “real” you should not be defined by the “professional” you. Do that and things will become easier.
On a side note, if you feel like you can help your managers just ask them. Why would trying to provide support be perceived as annoying? It only is if you can’t ultimately add any value…
I've wondered this numerous times throughout my time working in RE. There were moments where I had thought I could genuinely help my associate, vp, overall team etc with certain tasks, but such ideas were turned away. This was disappointing, as I would return to my desk to mindlessly browse the internet for the rest of the day/week rather than being able to support my deal team.
Maybe from their viewpoint, in certain situations it would help us all more by me not doing anything at the time. In retrospect, I could see how this may have been the case in certain instances, but in others I've definitely been confused.
If your managers are putting out fires or dealing with bigger issues - juniors can be distracting at best and annoying at worst. If you feel it’s difficult to get your bosses attention - find projects you think may add value and won’t require time/attention from your bosses.
In my first year at a corporate job, only 2 years post college, I wasn’t super busy for my first 6 months. I took it upon myself to take what was essentially an accounting project to allocate insurance cost - and I turned it into an audit of our insurance cost. I spent a fair chunk of weeks on this, spread out over a few months, pestered our insurance agents to understand how it all worked, pinged our Operations group to see what data was supplied to our agents, and dug into the underlying cost drivers of the various insurance policies. I had no idea what I was doing, I was just trying to understand it better. Ultimately - I started seeing a few things not line up - and I found out that we had been overcharged by $500K over the previous 2 years.
I literally took on a project nobody asked me to do, just to learn and hopefully add value, and saved the company $500K.
The next year, my boss asked me to tell her how much of a raise I wanted - then she gave me even more.
That is how you make yourself valuable as a junior. First Get your shit done. If you have time, learn something that could potentially add value. And if you find a way to add value, drive it to completion.
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
Which means that weak men are a prerequisite for strong men to exist. So the whole saying is nonsense even on it's face, because weak men create strong men, so the weak man is just as valuable and just as necessary as the strong man.
All of which is to ignore the strong fascist undertones in this meme.
When times are good, weak men are able to rise to power. It takes a strong man to get the civilization back on course.
It's a meme because there's some truth to it.
One of the most popular shows on tv (Succession) was built on a tangential premise (patriarch who built the business was tough and smart, the kids who were handed the business were weak and stupid).
I think that you're reading too much into it and are also playing with the singular and plural, "men" vs. "man"
If you mean a "strong man" will create good times, then yes. Definitely fascist undertones. If you mean hard times like the Great Depression create strong men in general in society which creates good times afterward, then there are no fascist undertones and that's how the saying is supposed to be read.
By changing from "men" to "man", you are totally twisting the original saying and its intent.
No, it doesn't mean that. It's simply saying that weak men can be a catalyst.
For example, you can be a strong person because you had great parents. If you had really shitty parents who beat you every day, you may also become a strong person after living through the worst and coming out stronger on the other side. It does not mean that beating your kids is a pre-requisite to being strong nor does it mean that it is a good thing or necessary to become strong. Lots avenues to becoming strong unless we confine the saying to its more literal interpretation in the a vacuum separate from the real world.
While there may be some aspects of this quote that could be construed as having a fascist undertone, the quote does not explicitly endorse any fascist policies or beliefs... although I agree it's important to be aware of the different ways in which a quote can be interpreted, it's equally as important to consider the context in which the quote is being used. In this case, it's in response to an OP complaining about his career timeline getting knocked off.
Isn't it possible to interpret the quote in a non-fascist way, for example by seeing it as a commentary on the importance of resilience, and not imply the commenter a fascist meme propagator?
Weak man alert 🚨
You know times are tough when people take the time to argue politics when discussing the tough times.
I’ll offer a different perspective and won’t beat you down like everyone else. There are firms that will be doing deals while a lot of people are on the sidelines. Firms like these have broad mandates and are nimble between deal structures, asset classes, and capital stack. Obviously there aren’t a ton of places hiring, but I’ve heard of 3 places like this that are hiring (all happen to be HF’s). The only thing is these roles are less “real estate” and more “finance” even if they play in the real estate space. You’ll never be a real estate expert, more so an expert at generating yield.
Real quick on the low low....where are these places....asking for a friend.
King street (NYC) , Elliott management (NYC), and strategic value partners (Greenwich) are the three I’m referencing.
We are still doing deals albeit it's slow af
The good news is Im getting ample video game time in
I understand that you're struggling with your current environment and feeling unfulfilled in your career. Here are some suggestions to help you navigate this situation:
1. Reflect on your goals and aspirations.
2. Have open communication with your boss about your concerns and ambitions.
3. Seek mentorship or guidance from individuals who can offer support.
4. Focus on personal growth and find activities outside of work that bring you joy.
5. Develop new skills to enhance your value in your current role.
6. Prioritize your mental health and seek support when needed.
Remember that setbacks are a natural part of any career journey. Stay resilient, maintain a positive mindset, and be open to new opportunities. If the environment continues to be detrimental, consider exploring other options that align better with your goals.
Never a bad time to be networking and making new connections. At the end of the day, your connections are what will allow you to 1) excel and 2) start your own shop if that's your goal.
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