Would like your opinion about my position and future plans
Hey all,
First off I will start out with my stats:
3.54 GPA from Florida State University, majored in Actuarial Science.
166 V and 166 Q on my GRE
I currently have 5 Months of WE (Couldn't get a job until recently), will try to shoot for 20 Months of WE at application and hopefully have around 30+ Months of WE at Matriculation. I am aiming at entering the 2018 Graduating Class of the MBA schools
Now let's get to the questions:
1) My GPA was actually a 3.8+ entering my junior year, but I seriously slacked off my last 2 years (I know, STUPID me!!). Will Adcoms notice this trend and feel that I am not suited to their MBA? I also have 2 CS and one D (I retook this class and got a B, later). Do Adcoms place emphasis on individual grades? If so, am I lost in this regard or is there something I can do to remedy this? Maybe retaking those 2 Cs at the nearest university to show that I am actually good at them?
2) Is my GPA competitive for MBA business schools">M7 schools? What about top 15? Does UG school brand matter to Adcoms? Does the fact that I majored in a tough major have any impact in their evaluation of my profile?
3) Should I take the GMAT? My GRE score is equivalent to a 740 GMAT, according to the official ETS score conversion of GRE to GMAT for B-schools. Would the time and money spent on aiming for a higher score than 740 on the GMAT be worth it?
4) What are the top 5 schools for a career in investment banking? I am DEAD SET on going into investment banking, so I want to maximize my chances (maybe someone could give me their opinions based number of students or % of students that actually enter into investment banking)
5) Should I have more WE before applying to B-schools? Is 30 months of WE enough to not only get accepted into B-schools, but also enough to be recruited by investments banks?
6) Are the WE stats reported on b-school website referring to WE at time of matriculation or application?
Thanks for your insight and answers in advance.
First of all, I am a huge Noles fan (for a number of reasons that I won't get into here), so nice! I'll give you my opinions on your profile, although I am certainly not an expert and there are others on here that know far more than me.
Normally with a 3.5+ GPA, I would not say retake any classes. However, in this case, I actually might. Prove to them it wasn't that you got dumber (I don't think they'll actually think that), or that you couldn't handle the rigor of the more advanced classes. Then point to it in the optional essay and do the whole maturity optional essay and point to the fact that you retook those CS and got As...etc.. Trend definitely matters, so I would think that counteracting that trend would be good.
Your GPA is competitive. Looking at your GRE, that's a 740 equivalent, which is also obviously competitive. School brand absolutely matters (although less than some think on here), and is why I had the above opinion about a retake. If you had a 3.55 from Princeton, I wouldn't be so concerned about a slight dip at the end, but at FSU, I think it could be an small issue. Tough major is good, although I'm not sure how well-regarded actuarial science is by b-school. Overall, I think your GPA is fine for admission to top-15 schools, and possibly okay for top-10/M7 schools.
Why did you take the GRE? Did you apply to a different grad school? It seems like a lot of these schools prefer GRE applicants to have had a reason to take the GRE (e.g. you're an international focused guy that may also apply for an MIB). Assuming you can get a 740 on the GMAT, and you have a time (you do), then I would take it.
As there was a recent discussion in another thread on here, just about any school in the top-15 has a great shot to get you into IB. Conversion rates seem higher as you get into the M7+Tuck/Haas caliber schools, but really, you'll get there from any of those places. I'm not going to pull employment report numbers, but find that other thread where there is much discussion about Cornell and IBD placement. I know at Tuck, 96% of students that recruited for banking got jobs, and most had multiple offers (57 offers for 30 students).
Work experience does not sound like enough to me. I think of two years as the bare minimum at application time, and I usually find it hard to believe that most people have enough leadership experiences/stories to tell with only 24 months of experience at that. On their websites, I think it's usually at matriculation. Really though, this is something you have to answer for yourself. Go through the essay questions for some schools and see if you have enough good stories to fill them up. You're not a shoe-in applicant (non-top tier state school, non-top tier job), so I think erring on the side of more good experiences rather than less is definitely the right move for you. Speaking for myself, just about everything I did worth writing/talking about happened in my 4th/5th years out of college (both in and out of work). My essays/interviews would have been MUCH worse had I applied even one year earlier.
What about extras? Again, you're a decent applicant, but you dont really have any strengths as far as top schools are concerned. GRE/GMAT is nice, but is now barely above average at top-10 schools. You need to be better than solid on ECs if you're going to get in, especialyl if you're applying on the lower end of the work experience spectrum. They tend to be the best place to get those leadership exerpiences that can be hard to get in your first few years of work. I think you can greatly move up the timeline for applying if you do big things outside of work early on.
Good luck.
Any top 20 listed below should give you a shot. Here's the ranking for reference (pasted from P&Q):
Rank & School
1. Harvard Business School
2. Stanford GSB
3. Chicago (Booth)
4. UPenn (Wharton)
5. Northwestern (Kellogg) 6. MIT (Sloan)
7. Columbia Business School 8. Dartmouth (Tuck)
9. Duke (Fuqua)
10. UC-Berkeley (Haas)
11. Cornell (Johnson)
12. Michigan (Ross) 13. Virginia (Darden)
14. UCLA (Anderson) 15. New York (Stern)
16. Carnegie Mellon (Tepper)
17. Yale School of Management
18. UNC (Kenan-Flagler) 19. Texas-Austin (McCombs)
20. Indiana (Kelley)
@"BGP2587" Thanks for the detailed overview. What kind of volunteer experience are Adcoms looking for? Something that demonstrates leadership? If so, in what sphere would it best to be? I don't have any ECs beyond college...
I am currently located in the Bay Area, should I retake the classes at UC Berkeley (or some other college) or retake some classes at Florida State, but online? Is it even possible to take classes at another university which is not my undergraduate one?
@"MBAGrad10" Thanks for the list, could you point me out the webpage for the rankings? I would love to read the comments and associated links.
Any more insights welcomed!
Work Experience, GMAT, GPA (in relation to undergrad institution and major difficulty), are 90% of the battle. Recommendations, Essays, and interviews are 9%. EC's/Volunteering/etc only matter on the very margins. I'd focus on getting a super high GMAT more than anything.
@OpsDude I would say that in ~90% of cases, I agree with you. However, I think there are 10% where ECs play a big role.
One scenario is people that just have out of this world extras, that can really push them over the top. I actually think that I was in this group – my EC’s were very strong and I wrote about them in at least one essay for every school (usually multiple). Varsity athletes and founders of non-profits are both obvious examples of things that b-schools love.
The other is people that need ECs to make up for holes in their app. OP plans to apply with limited work experience. That likely means that his leadership opportunities at work will be limited. That’s a huge red flag, but if he can take on solid leadership roles at non-profits or elsewhere, then he will have things to write about and talk about in essays and interviews. More importantly, these schools are basically obsessed with leadership, adversity, working with teams, etc., all of which can be evidenced by extra curricular involvement.
Is it better to exemplify all these things in the work place? Absolutely. That’s why McKinsey consultants get into b-school; it’s basically a factory for producing what AdComs want. However, I do think that AdComs also recognize that not everyone gets a job at McKinsey out of school, and while some still prove leadership et al. in their non “top tier” jobs, others don’t have that opportunity.
Doing it elsewhere proves both ability and a desire to do something greater, which is the sort of mushy shit that I think they love. Plus it’s resume/interview/essay gold: “I wasn’t getting the leadership opportunities that I desired at work, so I decided to lead a fundraising effort for the non-profit I’ve worked with since I moved to SF…ultimately raising $250k…”.
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