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lol prestige, guys in energy are out to make money. Even the boys at JArnold's are still country folk at heart. Energy is prolly the most relaxed environment out there, prestige comes with your bank account.
JA has a nice piece in this months Fortune
Thanks for the heads up, I actually saw the video of the CFTC proceeding/testimonies recently, all interesting points from him and the producers, he sure is focued on putting regulations on the physical contracts and leaving the financials alone.
This is as true as it gets. Traders work for themselves and the company is just a vehicle to help them get paid. All you should worry about in trading is how much experience you can get early on and the rest comes with time.
does anyone have a link to JA's testimony? trying to write a paper basically on the CFTC proceedings and i'd rather watch the video than have to read the entire testimony...
http://capitolconnection.gmu.edu/cftc/webcastarchive.htm
Glencore was generally considered undisputed #1 before, had a lot a of turmoil however and so there's been a lot of talent shuffle from there, most notably to Trafigura.
Prestige-wise: analyst at a bank beats analyst at a commodities firm.
What you should do though is a question of serious thinking. The most successful people in energy trading quite often come from a strict commodities background and had a junior experience at an Enron or BP which gave them the connections and understanding of the logistics in the business.
If you're seriously thinking about energy trading, take a look at John Arnold's e-mails which he wrote while at Enron. If you sift through the crap e-mails about meetings and attendance, a lot of the e-mails where he's talking about pricing or moving the market would be good for you. Also, there's one particular e-mail where he asks for permission to short Enron stock/buy CDS (can't remember which).
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Prestige-wise: analyst at a bank beats analyst at a commodities firm.
I dont agree. Depends on who you ask.
I know this is an extremely old thread, but does anyone know of energy prop shops that recruit summer interns? It seems like none of them really have a structure Summer Analyst program and they're never posted under career opportunities
Calling any of the firms listed "prop shops" is a bit of a stretch. Are you asking about physical traders or paper ones?
Yeah, I realized most of the listed firms are physical traders. I guess I'm more interested in paper trading.
There are very few firms out there strictly trading energy related paper. The largest paper traders in the business are the physical shops listed in the original post of this thread. Banks move some size too but it is in no way "prop" trading like you are thinking as they are typically just trading in order to offer a service to their clients with a little speculation on the side when they can get away with it. Then on top of that there are a few hedge funds here and there but nothing with summer programs.
If you want to trade paper someday then realistically you need to start at a physical shop or a major such as BP or Shell. From there you can move onto trading strictly paper if that is still want you want to do for some reason.
To answer your question directly, banks and the majors are about the only places that offer formal summer programs. What I would do if I were you though is get on LinkedIn and start messaging every person you can find at smaller shops related to energy trading/logistics and ask them to get on the phone. See where it goes from there.
Energy in general is much less formal than any New York based products and the people in the industry reflect that. Call enough people and assuming you have a decent background I bet you can find something. PM me your resume and I will see if I can help you out.
agree and great reply
Agree with this last paragraph a ton. I worked for a company with 25 people this summer. Got the job from a random guy my uncle met at his plant. Look for every back channel you can find.
I actually just applied to the Shell internship program listing Commercial Trading as my first choice. Anyone know where they are in the recruiting process?
Applied as well. Crazy long process just to get an interview in my opinion. 3 assessments along with a hirevue. That's at least 1 hour worth of work...
evaluate your upside vs downside risks aka what my mom calls: what are your priorities
While the pure "Commercial Trading/Rotational Programs" should definitely be something you apply to and strive to get they are fiercely competitive with 1000s of applicants for very few positions, making the odds of you landing one slim to none. I would also look for internship roles within operations, risk, or even contracts/settlements as that is where you are most likely going to be starting out in/spending a majority of your time anyways in order to learn whatever product you wind up working with. Physical Trading is a lot different than banking in that almost all of the "front office" guys come from the "back office" and not just through these specialized rotational programs. When you go to apply for full time positions having an internship showing that you have at least some understanding of operations/risk/contracts will be a huge leg up. Do not think that just because you were rejected for one of the prestigious rotational programs that you're shit out of luck.
if you call being an analyst or scheduler on a desk "back office" I guess I would agree. But 100% having a internship in risk will def help you getting to top of the list for your next internship or analyst gig
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