What is the difference in ops at glen and trafi in terms of career progression, culture, pay etc?
Heard near impossible to transition ops->trader at Trafi, whilst it is likely in Glen? Are these spots preferentially reserved for people who have been through their grad/programmes?
What is your preferred commodity to start your career in?
Bump
It depends on the office and department
In Switzerland you are guaranteed a six figure salary and hefty bonuses, many if not most people in ops don't want to become traders
So would it be much easier and more promised to be a trader if people start in Switzerland?
Trafigura is a sweat shop. Thats the difference
From my understanding, both Trafigura and Glencore provide opportunities for internals to transition to trading roles after several years in the company. This often follows having completed their respective grad schemes and then worked full time in one of the middle office functions (most often, operations or risk).
I wouldn't stress too much about the ideal product class. Some of this you'll have control over (i.e. networking, current job proximity, etc.), some of it you won't (i.e. what are the needs of the business in terms of headcount). Steer it as much as you can, of course, but don't get too wrapped up about it - better to aim to avoid absolutely dire seats than it is to strive for what are perceived as the most prestigious / lucrative ones. Sometimes, if you're good in one product class, and there's the chance to lateral elsewhere within the firm, you can manufacture the chance to do so later down the line.
Trafigura tends to hire more external traders, Glencore prefers to develop more talent in-house (however, of course, isn't completely opposed to the idea of hiring externally if it needs to do so).
Hi, I have an offer from one of the trading houses. Just curious as to what you would consider the dire seats to avoid?
If it's a grad role, you don't need to worry about this right now - the rotations you cover as part of your scheme will be dealing with virtually all desks anyway
You'll be in a better position to assess from the inside once you're there what desks seem like those to avoid
NPCs believe they can do ops then trade. once ur ops ur always ops. only way to break through is to quit ops and interview for trading positions at different shops within 1-2 years max.
Couldn’t disagree more. Almost every natural gas trader I have ever met started their career in Ops
yes but dont stay in ops forever.
there are super star schedulers that make a million bucks some years.
but a certain amount of hey I did all these noms and now I get the hang of it let me take a stab at making some pnl attitude is what is better story to get into a trading seat vs being spoon fed to become a trader.
literally the number of people that work as schedulers ik that want to leave for trading vs those that actually become traders there is a big difference.
Ops to trader is certainly a possible transition at those places, maybe more so in metals where the big miners don't have big trading organizations the way supermajors do.
That said, a lot less commercial people than ops there, you need a decent amount of luck (ie someone commercial giving up their seat when you are the best positioned operator).
Perception is Trafi is more sweaty, but likelier to accommodate switching products, while Glencore is more siloed but less sweaty.
What do you mean by sweaty? Bad hours? What are they like?
Smaller shops like trafi expect longer hours out of their employees, but I’m of the opinion they are much better places to work than majors.
Between a seat like Trafiguras/Glencores grad program and BP/Shell, what makes the most sense from the perspective of getting a trading seat/getting hired after? Is it hard to find a job from one of the trade shops programs if a seat isn’t opened up?
I would suggest the major route. Its less cut-throat vs trading houses. Seats are limited where ever you go. Best way is to get into Shell/BP/Glencore TDP programs. At a major the pace is a bit slower and you actually have time to learn the job you are doing. Trafi ops is a sweat shop where your seat is always on fire. If you can do well there you'll get a shot at trading at some point but its very rare for a Trafi grad program fellow to get into Trading.
Its always difficult to get a seat and being at the right place at the right time is the most important. So if you wanna do physical you cannot think that in 5 years I will become a trader. Its all about where a seat opens up, how good you are, who do you know etc etc.
In terms of programs I would say BP/Glencore/Shell/Vitol/Trafi. The only reason i put Shell below Glencore is because a lot of Shell TDP hires are internal.
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