MM S&T prospects
Got a FT S&T offer from a MM bank (think Macquarie, Stanchart), how is MM's S&T compared to BB's?
Do they do more trading for corporate clients vs institutions as in BBs?
Any insight on the work, compensation, exit ops, culture
Thanks
More so traditional institutional clients
Have always wondered this myself, honestly have not spoken with many people in MM S&T. Rarely gets talked about on here either.
MM S&T (Originally Posted: 03/30/2013)
Hey guys. After a lot of hard work I have been fortunate enough to receive an offer with a very reputable MM S&T shop and an AM (T.Rowe/Fidelity/PIMCO).
Considering both offers are in the same city and that I can't go wrong with either offer I am curious what would be best in terms of short term and long term compensation, exit opportunities, lifestyle, and the overall responsibilities of the job.
Also, if I end up having to go through FT recruitment after the internship what experience/name do you think would look best on the resume?
Thanks
Probably BR, but it can be hard to convert there
depends on what you want to do down the line of course... buy side inst sales is completely different than sell side.
on the buy side you are marketing funds whereas on sell side you are selling securities. you'll gain more technical skills on the sell side, be it equities, FICC or whatever.
on lifestyle and comp, buy side sales is not much more than 9-5 as you're not really a market participant (and hence dont need to work market hours). comp potential is better for SS... but BS is not a bad gig if you want decent lifestyle and comp.
Sales reps from various funds drop in to pitch their products at least one/twice a year per firm. They are some of the most relaxed, happiest looking people, and they dress well too so they aren't making bad money either.
S&T at a MM (Originally Posted: 04/20/2013)
Whats up everyone, I recently received an offer to work at a MM this summer in S&T (think Blair, Jefferies, Baird). I wanted to get your thoughts on the MM's in this space. There is not much information on this forum about MM S&T which is why I wanted to start a new thread. I know that all three have been rapidly expanding, gaining market share, and are looking to hire. Would you take this over some BB opportunities? How do they fair against the BB's? Growth outlook? Are they working with smaller hedge funds or do they have larger clients as well? Is it possible to lateral into a BB later on with a MM background? I will be on the equities side of the house. I know that banks are classified as MM's based on the size of the investment banking deals that they do, but I am not sure whether the S&T side would get the MM label to it as well. I am new to S&T so forgive me if this is a stupid question. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Some are better than others so it's impossible to generalize based purely on "MM." Within equities it can be very trader/salestrader/analyst/sector specific. As a brief example (and there are hundreds of variations to this) but:
You could work with someone who happens to be best friends with the buy-side trader/PM who trades the largest amount of retail stocks on the street. If this is the case (and said trader has commission dollar discretion) it's very possible that within the retail sector that MM bank does as much (if not more) in institutional business then another bank on the street. Just one example - and undoubtedly the big banks do a good business but I think you'd be surprised as to some of the niches Middle Market Banks have.
To answer some of your questions:
Yes they work with funds of all sizes -- although very likely not getting paid to the extent by said clients as the Bulge Brackets (way more touch points worthy of payment, electronic, clearing, prime, program trading, corporate access....etc.).
I would take some MM opportunities above some BB and vice-versa... Again dependent on a TON of variables. You could certainly move from MM to BB and back --- however given your level of experience, knowledge and your summer position don't get over your skis.... Focus on learning the business this summer and worry about the rest when it comes.
In 4 later
I mostly agree with PullTheWire. The main disadvantage is obviously size. MM tend to be very big in one geography and much smaller in the rest. They also tend to have fewer desks. This limits you in terms of products you can trade and international opportunities. However, like PullTheWire said, they have niches where they can be very strong. For example Santander is very strong in most products regarding LatAm, BNP and SocGen are very big in French Bonds and equity options in Europe. As to your questions, generally I wouldn't take a MM over a BB because of the breadth of opportunities. I would consider lateralling later on in my career to explore one of these niches, so maybe going to an Asian MM to HK or Tokyo to trade asian rates or something like that. However there are a lot of factors, so it's not a yes/no answer, it's more of a case by case basis. Plenty of people in BBs trading floors come from MMs, specially from these niche desks.
Non-BB S&T (Originally Posted: 08/24/2011)
So I cant find much info on careers in trading on non-BB desks. What are some of the biggest differences between BB and MM trading...exit ops, salary, etc. thanks in advance guys
For NYC the base for BBs and MM will be the same. Sales at a BB maybe easier because BBs tend to have more/larger clients the MM firms. In terms of a trading, I interned for a MM firm on the fixed income prop desk. We got a lot of resumes from BB traders wanting to work on our desk. I really can't comment on the market making aspects of the firm.
From what I hear it is a lot better. Less stressful...also the pay is commissions (of course) so it is what you make of it. My neighbor jumped around many small shops, and he retired at 35 haha so take that for what it is worth
Non-BB S&T SA (Originally Posted: 02/08/2012)
Which non-BB's have the strongest trading operations? I didn't manage to get a BB SA spot, so I'm considering my other options (along the lines of RBS, HSBC, RBC, Jefferies etc.). What's the best way to set myself up to have the best chance of getting a BB full time spot in the fall?
Forget completely about RBS, it's going straight into the wall
I think HSBC is your best bet among those. French Banks too if you don't have problems with frenchies.
You might want to hurry up.. Jefferies FI has a superday on Friday, don't know about the others
Should I be worried about French banks what with Europe falling apart and the transaction tax? I guess if I'm just planning to be there for the summer it's not a huge issue, but it seems like long term not the best option maybe.
jeff FI had a terrible conversion rate last summer
French banks (SocGen BNP) are a bit of a "niche" .They are top-notch (esp SocGen) if not the best on the street in equity derivatives. A lot of senior eq derivatives guys at BB learned everything at SocGen and got poached by BBs. But they are average at best if not terrible everywhere else.
So if you want to go ahead, make sure that you aim for Eq derivatives and nothing else.
OP you are too late for FT recruiting. All the banks you mentioned as well as the french banks do FT recruiting in the fall...if you're a junior then I wouldnt bank on these banks either, my understanding is that only Citi interviewed people in the fall for FT in S&T. Citi didnt hire anyone because all their SAs took their offers. Unless the market changes drastically, and banks turn into a hiring spree, id recommend looking at other banks for SA position.
S&T Firms other than Bulge Bracket (Originally Posted: 12/09/2010)
Are their any S&T firms/teams that are not the obvious Bulge Bracket or large banks but have a serious impact?
(And not Baird, Jeffries etc)
With those two out all I can think of is Nomura, should have an impact with all the people they hired, rumors of possible acquisitions as well.
Jones Trading, Knight Capital, Cantor Fitzgerald, GFI, Benchmark Company, ITG, BTIG, RBC, BNY Convergex
These are for equity shops. Some of these are purely brokers others make markets
Saw a 2 hour special on CNBC today where Maria broadcasted from the RBC Capital Markets trading floor in New York. Interviewed a bunch of people on the floor. Looked like a pretty big operation and the CEO's said they were expanding/hiring.
trade4size - What's the difference between these and the prop shops? Are they just public or brokers? Also, in terms of payout which do you think is better? What are your thoughts in general?
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