Not fitting in with ags culture
Just got promoted into a jr trader seat at one of the ABCD. I'm an Asian male from an "elite" East Coast background and initially aimed for natty or power seat but an ags firm was the only one that gave me a good role straight out of school. I bounced from that firm and currently working at the ABCD.
Problem is throughout my career so far I found it hard to truly socialize on a personal level and build friendships with many of my colleagues/counterparties. I can make small talk and looks like I'm personable enough to land a trading spot but the personal rapport required that my mentors and seniors talk about to make a good career in physical seems far from attainable. Many of my colleagues seem like best buddies both in and outside of work but I feel like an outsider.
Not sure if it's just a group-wide problem or ags problem for someone of my background, should I transition to a different commodity?
Definitely not isolated to ags. Energy is much the same with co workers/counterparties golfing, going to games, etc. Really not many elite/ ivy type backgrounds in energy especially with banks ramping down over the last decade. If you want to be gel more with academic, analytical types you can try to move to a prop trading firm in a commodity you understand.
I think like it or not you’re going to have to just fit in best you can, wherever you are. I’m in energy and it’s still a good ole boys system, my mentor and I have nothing in common, he’s basically a cowboy, has a ranch etc. I do nogi Jiu jitsu and Muay Thai, I was a frequent BASE jumper and sky diver. I was in the Army, he has no one in his family that was in the military. He’s a devout catholic, I’m not religious.
What we do have in common though is a passion for the job. There is nothing sexy about my current job, but I love it. I want to move to a trading seat, and eventually want to do his job one day, and IMO that’s enough.
To be honest one of the big aspects of physical trading is people and relationship management. Its a world where your word is your bond. It is as much about managing financial risk as it is about managing people risk. When I first joined in energy i would have classified myself as an analytical person. Yeah I got along well with people in the company (you will always do if you go out drinking/dinner on Fridays etc etc) but for the love of God I would not pick up the phone and call and talk.
That got solved once i did my stint in Ops where you basically cant get things done unless you are calling and chasing over the phone. However, you also dont want to be the person in the market who is irritable. But that experience basically taught me how to be commercial. Even after that I've had instances where I feel that may be something i said was not right. But i found someone in the company who was willing to point this out. I can bounce ideas and approaches against him and then decide what to do.
The first question you need to ask yourself is do you like trading physical. If that is a no then definitely get out. If yes, then the next question to ask is did you try knowing the people you work with? Not only internally but also externally? Did you ask for advice or mentoring internally? If not then those are the first things you need to do. Understand that this a potential developmental need and take the steps to work on it. The best thing about physical is what background you come from does not matter. I think thats a feature of this market and not a bug bec you get to meet so many different people and learn from them
Now some people are just not wired that way and prefer the more mathematical route. And that is great. And if that person is you then you can always try switching though not sure if thats possible between Ags to power/Natty.
If physical is not for you, then for sure what oil_quant has said can also work.
I think part of your issue is identifying as an “elite” East Coast background. Many people in your space are actual farmers who just don’t care. I grew up on a farm and have family members who run their operations nearly like hedge funds. I have a cousin who was a trader at citadel and went back to run the trading side of his family’s farm. Granted they have a huge operation with their own air field, etc.
Agreed this is pretty much it, you are identifying with a group of people you want to be around versus finding common ground. Gas/Power will have more people with your background but no guarantee they end up working with you.
yeah, not trying to say OP needs to 'dumb down' his/her language but the tone of his post is a little pretentious as well.
most underrated answer
Hey man, I actually went through something similar at an ABCD not too long ago! I also initially aimed for a seat in energy but was drawn toward ags after reading Merchants of Grain.
I managed the hedges/cash position and spec trades for our region, which I loved doing, while maintaining my physical trading book and had solid relationships with my coworkers. I was good at developing relationships with most farmers and brokers (had a good number that I genuinely connected with and enjoyed speaking to, though it's certainly not always easy), but was generally not a huge fan of truckers and rail and barge operators. That said, I could patronize/BS well enough to deal with the latter three groups effectively, but developing genuine relationships with them could be a bit tough, while my coworkers generally seemed to excel with it. Also, not sure where you're located, but I found living in the rural Midwest pretty difficult, although I understand why people can find it appealing.
Having networked pretty heavily while at the firm, a few of the Traders that I spoke with suggested that the Oceanic Shipping, Ethanol, Biodiesel and Paper/Prop Trading desks were significantly more in line with what I was looking to do, though there are far fewer seats available relative to the grain and oilseeds roles scattered around the globe. I'd recommend reaching out to people on those desks and doing what you can to make yourself competitive for the next available spot if you're planning to continue trading and are looking for a move to an environment that you feel better aligned with.
I ultimately ended up leaving for an FP&A role in an industry that I enjoy out in NYC, so I was really fortunate to have everything work out on my end, but I think it's worth staying persistent and working your way into that next seat if you're set on Trading. I still genuinely miss the thrill of it quite a bit.
Regarding your last point, I'm a South Asian (Punjabi) guy from a relatively comfortable family on the West Coast and never felt like background had much of a material impact whatsoever - it all came down to my own inability to connect with them. Your situation could very well be different, in which case I'm very sorry, but it's still always nice to get a bit introspective from time to time.
brown munde
I dont believe this to be a commodity specific problem, I believe this to be a geographic specific problem. In the end of the day of the ABCD, the ABC have a similar culture to themselves just because of where they are located. For example Cargill hires a lot of U Minnesota grads and people that grew up in the Minneapolis metro so the culture is going to be skewed more towards the midwest culture when it comes to politicking your way up the ranks. Same vibe with ADM and Bunge as well, a lot of Big 10 boys clubs in these companies. That doesnt mean that all ag traders are like this, look for opportunities in and around the coasts, all the big ag companies have offices outside the midwest, or opportunities at a non-ABCD that has a good presence in Ag trading like an Olam, Wilmar, COFCO, etc. I would echo what billy said, look to move to a role that's more paper focused, if its not the culture youre looking for its at least a step in the right direction that can get you to a place outside your firm that would have a culture you could fit in better with
Forgot to add:
I was in your shoes earlier in my career and made a move to a better place now, feel free to PM me and I can talk more specifics
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