Admission queries to Harvard/Wharton/Columbia/MIT Sloan!!

Hi all,

I am aiming at sending an application to Harvard/Wharton/Columbia/MIT Sloan for fall 2012. I am an Indian and currently working with Deloitte Consulting - Strategy and Operations as a senior consultant in Munich,Germany.


My profile:

Age:
28 yrs

Education:
1. M.Sc in Production Management + MBA in Technology Management (was a dual degree in Germany),
2. BE in Production Engg from India.

work Experience: (Have worked in 9 different countries across Asia, EU and US)
1. Deloitte Consulting - S&O Europe ( dec 2009 - Present)
2. Deloitte & Touche - ERS, Germany (Sep 2008 - Dec 2009).... (per time student consultant)
3. PricewaterhouseCoopers Consulting, India - (Sept 2005 - Aug 2007)

EC:
1. Cricketer in India at district level
2. Founder and President of a Non Profit in Germany towards India managing 50k Euros a year and supporting 3 schools fully in Delhi, Chennai and Ahmedabad.
3. President of a student Union in Germany, having led more than 50 students towards fundraising activities.

Languages:
English (Business fluent), German (Business Fluent), Spanish (Conversational), Hindi and Bengali


I am looking at applying to the best schools for management and finance and want to subsequently move to PE or M&A in I Banking. I am taking the GMAT in another 3 months early next year.

My queries.

  1. is my profile good enough to crack Harvard/Wharton/Columbia or MIT Sloan. I want to stay on the east coast and preferrably land up in NYC or Boston.
  2. What are the areas that i need to give more stress to develop a solid application.
  3. What would be the best time to apply given my experience.

I would be glad to get some tips from admission experts of PEs or bankers on this forum as to what would be the best strategy and timing for an application to the mentioned top schools.

Thanking in anticipation.

Regards

 

It looks like you already have an MS and an MBA. I think many schools would be asking themselves how they could help you.

Your industry background is OK- not great but not bad either. GMATs or GRE scores along with references will be very important.

You will need to be very specific in your statement of purpose exactly what you want to do with your career and how a degree from one of these schools will help you.

Thanking in anticipation.
I know it sounds crazy, but part of the reason they have essays- and interviews- is to filter out people who haven't mastered the western English business idioms. I know everyone speaks English in India, but "today morning" and "thanking in anticipation" automatically signal "not a Westerner."

If this is something you really want, you need to be able to get through a half-hour interview while being able to relate to a culturally American interviewer. This is a place where a few speech classes could be really helpful.

 

Hi,

Yes i do have a MS and MBA. But since it was part of a dual course therefore i missed some digging deep into the MBA part and particuarly finance. I am currently working completely in M&A, PMIs and strategic field which i prefer to do for another 2 yrs. At 30, I want to diversify into a more spefic area such as M&A withing BB Banking areas. I am looking at worthwhile money and can do the 100+ hours.

One more concern for me is that I have a GPA for my MS a little on the lower side but my MBA (which was a minor) has good grades. I can hit a Assnt Manager in S&O in 2.5 yrs with more international experience. Also my NGO is coming up good and has hit newspapers in Germany already.

Query: 1. Is a 750 GMAT good enough? 2. Should i take a few extra classes to help my lower GPA for MS?

Thanks and cheers

 

I will be 30 when applying and probably 31 when getting in. Is that a problem. Although will have close to top notch strategy experience in the next 2 years. Should i address the age issue as well in my essays or how do i go around that?

Cheers

 

Considerning HBS for the extraordinary brand and the alumni base that they have all around the world. Wharton again for the finance expertise and Columbia for NYC. I would consider the NU option but dont intend to move to Chicago. Although chicago has been rated top notch over the few years. Any more suggestions?

Cheers

 
  1. Only 10% of students at these schools have GMAT scores of 770 or above, so clearly a 780 is not necessary for admission -- and a 780 on its own will not get you in. Candidly, if you score 750 and retake the test, admissions offices are more likely to question your judgment, than to be impressed with a slight score improvement. B School admissions are not as formulaic and score-driven as law schools or the MFE programs Illini mentioned.

  2. Harvard is going to be nearly impossible due its younger skew. Only 11 students in the class of 2010 were 30 or older at the time of application, and I'm willing to bet there was something really special about their experience. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_JSVsvp9BxWE/SeJQzSYON5I/AAAAAAAAACg/RWBma5WS3…

  3. With your background, it is going to be very, very challenging to land a private equity job, if not impossible. That said, your experience puts you in an excellent position to apply for M&A jobs from a top MBA program.

  4. In terms of your post-MBA opportunities, there is no benefit of spending an additional two years in consulting. Everyone enters M&A at the Associate level after b school. Additionally, you're going to have a tougher time applying even to schools that aren't Harvard if you're two years older. For both of these reasons, if you're serious about transitioning into finance via an MBA, I would encourage you to apply as soon as you can put together a strong application.

  5. I would also encourage you to cast a wide net and add Chicago Booth to your list. Booth sends a lot of people to Wall Street every year.

  6. To the language point, I would hire a tutor to help guide you through the essay process. Top-notch services are expensive (eg $5k), but as a % of your total MBA expense ($200k) and anticipated income as an M&A banker, it's a small price to pay. While a 780 vs. 750 GMAT score is very unlikely to affect your application, excellent essays may get you into Wharton/Columbia/Booth while mediocre ones will definitely keep you out.

 

^^^ At most b-schools, there's also an interview. Part of the reason they have the interview is to see whether you can communicate effectively enough in English for folks to see some real personality in a half hour interview. That's why I'm recommending an English speaking course before the interviews.

It's not exactly easy to be a foreigner here in the US and the international students the OP is competing against will be creme-de-la-creme folks who will probably speak with an impeccable British accent (or perhaps Ohio accent if they are from Latin America).

 

Realistically, you should be broadening your search beyond those four schools and those two jobs.

As others have said, you have no shot whatsoever at HBS at your age. Feel free to throw away the $250 if you want.

You should apply to a good number of other schools, including non-finance schools. Every top 15 school sends a number of people to IB. PE is not realistic with your profile. You have a shot at the non-HBS schools but you are not a shoo-in for any of them so I think you're best off widening the net.

750 GMAT is a good score and it's great that you're smart, but I assure you that with your nationality and background you will have a tough time getting into the very best schools vs. other applicants who are dumber but "fit" US business stereotypes better. Unfair, but true. You should also understand that b schools honestly do not care about GMAT once you get above 720 or so. It's not like law schools or IIT where minute differences at the top of the scale make a difference.

Finally, it is up to you to decide how honest to be in your apps, but if you say you want to go into PE, you won't get in because they know you won't place into PE. If you say you want to go into IB you might get in but there too they will be worried about placement. If you say you want to go into entrepreneurship your odds are better.

Good luck.

 

I mean you do realize that these MBA programs are more focused on networking and placing their forlks in companies and I think KIT; RWTH or Darmstadt/TU Munique don't really care about that in their Diploma Degree Programs.

However, with that score, you EASILY get into any mayor industrial company. Do an intern, get to know some of the finance guys, smalltalk, and tell them how good you are and that you prefer finance to industrial management. Then switch and there you go.

Do this with 2 or three DAX companies, maybe get exposure to US companies, and a) you should have a path to get into an MBA program, or b) could switch to more finance related companies, or c) still get a decent job.

"Make 'Nanas, not war! "
 

I should be a little detailed. I am done with my dual degrees and i am working fulltime right now with Deloitte Consulting S&O based out of munich and do advise DAX 30 and German Mittelstand (SMEs) as well. I do agree that US schools are highly focussed on sending their students to banks, consults and industry which is usually not the case with any Uni in EU. Also, I appreciate and do understand that HBS is impossible at my age and perhaps it would be a more judicious choice for me to get into Wharton/Columbia/Sloan with a pure finance focus so as to get into M&A of a BB IB based out of NYC or London.

So according to you guys i should focus more on essays and try to make it as fast as possible to get into a B School to shift into M&A. I am a good standardised test taker and got 1560 in GRE so hopefully i can get 750+ in GMAT.

But, M&A of an IB is also quite lucrative to get into as per the anecdotes we see on various sources. What are my odds for that.

Cheers

 

No.

I do know many who didnt go to an IIT but did make it to HBS, Wharton and Columbia. I went to a top University which is ranked next to IIT. Since i have a dual degree from EU as well, I am hopeful that the adcom is going to give it some weightage even if I am not from IIT.

 

I thought I was clear but perhaps not.

At your age, things like school and test scores will not help you. If they were bad (which they aren't), they could hurt you, but great ones won't help. 23 year old wunderkinden can get a leg up due to sheer talent, but given your age and experience, they will be almost entirely focused on your essays and letters of recommendation, and whether they indicate leadership ability, teamwork, etc.

Telling strangers your test scores and asking them about your admissions chances is a) not productive, b) reeks of insecurity, and c) makes you seem like a troll.

Getting a job in banking (M&A or otherwise) will, again, come down to personality and fit, not IQ. Candidly, in my experience Indians have a tough shot, because bankers tend to be white guys who like their own (exceptions for those who speak Chinese). I imagine your accent also plays a role--if you have an upper-caste (king's english) accent your odds are better.

Of course, all these questions would be better directed to the banking forum...

 
EnricoPallazzo:
I thought I was clear but perhaps not.

At your age, things like school and test scores will not help you. If they were bad (which they aren't), they could hurt you, but great ones won't help. 23 year old wunderkinden can get a leg up due to sheer talent, but given your age and experience, they will be almost entirely focused on your essays and letters of recommendation, and whether they indicate leadership ability, teamwork, etc.

Telling strangers your test scores and asking them about your admissions chances is a) not productive, b) reeks of insecurity, and c) makes you seem like a troll.

Getting a job in banking (M&A or otherwise) will, again, come down to personality and fit, not IQ. Candidly, in my experience Indians have a tough shot, because bankers tend to be white guys who like their own (exceptions for those who speak Chinese). I imagine your accent also plays a role--if you have an upper-caste (king's english) accent your odds are better.

Of course, all these questions would be better directed to the banking forum...

Wow. That was frigging racist man. So Banking is a white guy's world with the exception of Chinese?

 
Best Response
masterofpuppets:
EnricoPallazzo:
I thought I was clear but perhaps not.

At your age, things like school and test scores will not help you. If they were bad (which they aren't), they could hurt you, but great ones won't help. 23 year old wunderkinden can get a leg up due to sheer talent, but given your age and experience, they will be almost entirely focused on your essays and letters of recommendation, and whether they indicate leadership ability, teamwork, etc.

Telling strangers your test scores and asking them about your admissions chances is a) not productive, b) reeks of insecurity, and c) makes you seem like a troll.

Getting a job in banking (M&A or otherwise) will, again, come down to personality and fit, not IQ. Candidly, in my experience Indians have a tough shot, because bankers tend to be white guys who like their own (exceptions for those who speak Chinese). I imagine your accent also plays a role--if you have an upper-caste (king's english) accent your odds are better.

Of course, all these questions would be better directed to the banking forum...

Wow. That was frigging racist man. So Banking is a white guy's world with the exception of Chinese?

Welcome to real life...

In all seriousness, I think he was just trying to lay it out in a clear, understandable fashion. Racist? Maybe a bit but as we all know fit is a huge deal and that can be effected by accent, ethnicity etc.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 
masterofpuppets:
EnricoPallazzo:
I thought I was clear but perhaps not. Getting a job in banking (M&A or otherwise) will, again, come down to personality and fit, not IQ. Candidly, in my experience Indians have a tough shot, because bankers tend to be white guys who like their own (exceptions for those who speak Chinese). I imagine your accent also plays a role--if you have an upper-caste (king's english) accent your odds are better.

Wow. That was frigging racist man. So Banking is a white guy's world with the exception of Chinese?

I didn't say I approve of this; I abhor it. But it is the reality of the situation and anybody planning to move to another continent and shell out $100K in order to get a specific job should be informed of how challenging it will be.

And it's less about race than it is about culture. From what I've seen, Indian-Americans are not at a disadvantage. Indians from India are.

 

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