Anal already, but can we be Retentive?
My buddies’ daughter pointed me to this site, so please be patient with an old fart.
My subgroup (two senior traders doing exotic derivatives something or other) has had issues retaining analysts/juniors on the desk and my boss thinks that has to do with us (him and myself) being overly anal. Hence the title - can we keep being anal yet still retain people. Both of us are coming from some 10-15 years of experience and one of us is a “quanto asset†(me, that is), so there also might be some communication issues there too.
On one side, I would like to instill the required level of anality into any junior person working with me (triple-check the prices, never trust the system values etc.). On the other hand I want to make sure they do not leave after the year is over and stick around for the years to come. What approach would achieve that with you?
For reference – it the US, top-tier bank.
If junior people are leaving, it's probably because you're making life unbearable...
Getting your team to be "anal" about details might not be the problem... your approach just might suck. Try softening up a bit, and build a team environment - I bet people will be more inclined to stay.
There are a couple of issues here, fisr of all maybe you're not hiring people who are a good fit into your team? I know it's a little harder to tell with juniors as our personalities and attitudes are very malleable - hence the importance of instilling anality - but if it's 2 senior traders and a junior that's going to be pretty intimidating so you need some sort of support there, I'd have real trouble coping if I didn't have the other junior on the desk (senior to me by about a year) who I can ask stupid questions to and get drunk wih on nights out.
It might also be that you're not paying enough, if you're on a really good desk here then the pay elsewhere after a year might be much better and if someone thinks they're not fitting in so well it's a no brainer.
Thanks a bunch for responding. Pay-wise I think we are in-line or even a bit better (at least according to our HR), a junior trader can expect a total of about 160+ total comp in the first year. For a smart youngster in the first few years it's not the salary that's important, as a matter of fact.
Do you really think it's the fact that there are two senior guys plus a junior on the team? Maybe it's it better to hire two juniors so they would be supporting each other?
Listening to how you've described the situation, I would jump at the chance to work with two senior traders as their only junior. Maybe hiring two juniors would give the juniors "social" reasons to stay, on top of the "educational" reason (learning from two competent, high-performing seniors), but I think ideally you'd find a kid who would stay in the spot because he saw the value of the education alone.
Have you considered hiring interns? It might be a good way to test out a potential candidate, to see if he/she is hungry enough for the learning experience you're offering.
Take this with a grain of salt, though - I'm a college sophomore.
There is one problem right there--senior management trusting HR. HR, by definition, is utterly incompetent. I'm not saying this is your specific problem, but in general senior people need to speak directly to junior people about issues like comp, promotion speed, etc. Why? Because junior people have much better information on issues like pay and advancement potential at various desks and firms because we have contacts all over the street at the junior level (esp. new MBAs, who probably have a longer list of contacts across the street than most MDs). HR knows little, if anything, about these issues.
I would agree that hiring two analysts would probably increase retention rate. Give each analyst someone to complain about the anal managers with, get drunk with.
You might still be able to pick up an intern or two as well (depending on your HR I guess), see how they do and if they can take the seniors being "anal" give them offers knowing they can handle it, if not you haven't lost as much as you would have with a FT hire that leaves.
Before answers come questions. How clear are your expectations of committment to the desk in terms of years? Is there a status quo for promotion after 3 years of good performance, or is this more ambiguous? What approach do you take to helping juniors with placements after they have satisfactorily completed their committment?
I think you will glean from this board that junior people can handle some pretty shitty treatment from senior people if they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. If a junior is in purgatory, retention becomes a problem.
My recommendation? Take a Machiavellian stance. Make it painfully clear that anyone jumping ship will be burning bridges and ruining his reputation on the Street (true or not). Balance this by showing your reciprocal loyalty in no uncertain terms to those who have committed to the desk in the long run. Fuck the noise about having to work with people you can drink beer with, juniors want to get paid in the short-run, but more importantly get experience and learn in the short-run to leverage exponential pay in the long-run, whether they can get it on your desk or another is immaterial unless you provide incremental value in other ways.
Yeah threaten the junior that will make them stay and be really productive!!!!!!!!! ;-)
OR...
put a horrible amount of time into the recruitment process. It would appear you aren't getting people who are a fit for the job.
Look for a course to develop your recruiting / people reading abilities. Some people can hack the shit better then others.
If you are going to anal about everything offer them support and advice as well. If you are being overly critical but giving no positive back it will upset the poor little analyst who will then realise he has other options out there.
"Make it painfully clear that anyone jumping ship will be burning bridges and ruining his reputation on the Street (true or not)."
oh come on, this myth explodes in the first 2 weeks on the job.
for the original poster's comment, about being a 'quanto asset', what does that mean, that you're denominated in euros or something?
I would agree that this is a fit issue. Are your juniors up to par as far as knowledge or speed on the learning curve go?
Even if you are a fascist dictator on the job, what kind of whiny bitch quits a BB junior trading desk job? You're better off without them. I'm sure their are thousands of other people lining up for the job (including myself, ha wishful thinking), and with that in mind, make sure the prospectives know what they are getting into. You can always pass on hundreds of applicants baring in mind the opportunity cost of your time.
As a final note, do you know any up and coming college grads who have gained your respect and vice versa?
As soon as u make it onto a trading desk head hunters come calling - I had my first call after 1 month on the job so any threats as to ruining careers are all too plain as bluffs.
And trust me pay matters, if nothing else u convince ur self others are paying more and u always hear rumours - logically it makes no sense but u r there to make money!
2 juniors plus one senior being less anal would probably help a lot. pretty intimidating if you're a junior and you don't want to ask "dumb questions"
Don’t read this the wrong way
hi qw3m, i just tendered my resignation today from a BB trading desk becoz of the same problem which you described above. it was a painful hard decision for me to make, but the 2 senior traders were overly anal for me to continue functioning productively. i joined the desk about 3 months ago, as the junior trader to 2 senior traders, and i can totally empathise with what the junior traders on ur desk must have felt.
my initial 1st month on the desk was totally enjoyable as there was another junior trader (with 2 years experience) whom i could ask stupid questions freely and "hang-out" with. however, he was poached by a HF after my 1st month there and things went downhill from there. the other 2 senior traders were anal on every single aspect of my work, and i would invariably get a verbal-fuck for any questions considered stupid in their opinion. as a result, i balled myself up and refused to ask any questions for fear of getting fucked and being considered an ignorant idiot. also, i felt totally left-out on the desk as the 2 senior traders would bounce ideas off each other or crap jokes with each other without getting me involved. eventually, the pressure got built up to such an extent that i could feel myself dreading to go to work every single day. now that i've tendered my resignation, i truly felt liberated, but yet worried bout where i'm gonna get my next paycheck from.
"as a result, i balled myself up and refused to ask any questions for fear of getting fucked and being considered an ignorant idiot."
bad call, but easier said than done
what sort of desk idkoop?
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