Any insight on these funds?

SonnyZH's picture
Rank: King Kong | banana points 1,554
  • Ayaltis Group
  • Permal Group
  • Eton Park Capital Management

Been researching them today (mainly website info) but haven't found much on AuM of the first one and seperate intra-fund performance on the latter ones.

Got an interview with a reasonably new L/S HF with $300-400MM (more or less) AuM with a good performance up until now as a research analyst. Sorry I can't provide any more info, but if you could, how would you guys rank a work experience in the L/S fund in comparison to the other 3 FoHFs/HFs?

Any help really appreciated.

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Comments (17)

Aug 28, 2012
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Aug 28, 2012
GreenwichForLife:

Pretty good read about Eton Park:

http://www.hedgefundletters.com/category/eton-park...

Ha, the irony in the username. Heads up for the link.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 28, 2012

Eton Park is an extremely reputable fund. It was founded by Eric Mindich, the youngest ever partner at Goldman who also ran the risk arbitrage group (a precursor to Goldmans Principal Strategies Group). Currently they manage ~$10billion.

There's a lot of smart guys there including many from te former GSPS and SSG, which were/are among the the top groups. I hear it's also a goo place to learn and develop as an investor. I don't know much about the other two funds by I'd be willing to say Eton Park is a step above them.

Aug 28, 2012
akybaky:

Eton Park is an extremely reputable fund. It was founded by Eric Mindich, the youngest ever partner at Goldman who also ran the risk arbitrage group (a precursor to Goldmans Principal Strategies Group). Currently they manage ~$10billion.

There's a lot of smart guys there including many from te former GSPS and SSG, which were/are among the the top groups. I hear it's also a goo place to learn and develop as an investor. I don't know much about the other two funds by I'd be willing to say Eton Park is a step above them.

What would you say about the FoHF/PEs (Permal) experience? How different would it be to a typical HF? What about the exit opps? All the posts I've come across on WSO seem to bash FoHFs pretty hard.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 28, 2012

double post.

Aug 28, 2012

Dunno how you can mention Eton Park in the same sentenceas the other two. That's blasphemy.

Aug 28, 2012
NewGuy:

Dunno how you can mention Eton Park in the same sentenceas the other two. That's blasphemy.

^This. Honestly. But I mean the FoF space is completely different than the traditional fundamental HF space. In the former what you are doing is essentially researching different fund managers and allocating assets to them accordingly. In the latter you (depending on strategy) are doing fundamental research on companies, assets, their equity and debt, taking a view, and making an investment accordingly.

Honestly they are two different skill sets and what you learn in a FoF isn't really transferable to a pure-play HF and vice-versa; although I'd be willing to bet that it's easier to go from a traditional HF to a FoF. Everyone on this site will glorify traditional HFs like Eton Park (primarily because of the ridiculous wealth that you can accumulate if you're good) but honestly you need to decide what you like more and pursue that because going with the herd can only last you so long. And in the HF space, where there is far less hand-holding than in Banking or (to a lesser extent) megafund PE, if you don't love what you do and you're doing it because everyone else is then you'll be out of a job, quick.

Aug 29, 2012
akybaky:
NewGuy:

Dunno how you can mention Eton Park in the same sentenceas the other two. That's blasphemy.

^This. Honestly. But I mean the FoF space is completely different than the traditional fundamental HF space. In the former what you are doing is essentially researching different fund managers and allocating assets to them accordingly. In the latter you (depending on strategy) are doing fundamental research on companies, assets, their equity and debt, taking a view, and making an investment accordingly.

Honestly they are two different skill sets and what you learn in a FoF isn't really transferable to a pure-play HF and vice-versa; although I'd be willing to bet that it's easier to go from a traditional HF to a FoF. Everyone on this site will glorify traditional HFs like Eton Park (primarily because of the ridiculous wealth that you can accumulate if you're good) but honestly you need to decide what you like more and pursue that because going with the herd can only last you so long. And in the HF space, where there is far less hand-holding than in Banking or (to a lesser extent) megafund PE, if you don't love what you do and you're doing it because everyone else is then you'll be out of a job, quick.

Makes sense. Would you say there's a risk of getting pigeonholed at a FoF (regardless of their AuM)?

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 29, 2012
SonnyZH:
akybaky:
NewGuy:

Dunno how you can mention Eton Park in the same sentenceas the other two. That's blasphemy.

^This. Honestly. But I mean the FoF space is completely different than the traditional fundamental HF space. In the former what you are doing is essentially researching different fund managers and allocating assets to them accordingly. In the latter you (depending on strategy) are doing fundamental research on companies, assets, their equity and debt, taking a view, and making an investment accordingly.

Honestly they are two different skill sets and what you learn in a FoF isn't really transferable to a pure-play HF and vice-versa; although I'd be willing to bet that it's easier to go from a traditional HF to a FoF. Everyone on this site will glorify traditional HFs like Eton Park (primarily because of the ridiculous wealth that you can accumulate if you're good) but honestly you need to decide what you like more and pursue that because going with the herd can only last you so long. And in the HF space, where there is far less hand-holding than in Banking or (to a lesser extent) megafund PE, if you don't love what you do and you're doing it because everyone else is then you'll be out of a job, quick.

Makes sense. Would you say there's a risk of getting pigeonholed at a FoF (regardless of their AuM)?

Dude that's exactly what he said.

Aug 29, 2012
Kenny_Powers_CFA:
SonnyZH:
akybaky:
NewGuy:

Dunno how you can mention Eton Park in the same sentenceas the other two. That's blasphemy.

^This. Honestly. But I mean the FoF space is completely different than the traditional fundamental HF space. In the former what you are doing is essentially researching different fund managers and allocating assets to them accordingly. In the latter you (depending on strategy) are doing fundamental research on companies, assets, their equity and debt, taking a view, and making an investment accordingly.

Honestly they are two different skill sets and what you learn in a FoF isn't really transferable to a pure-play HF and vice-versa; although I'd be willing to bet that it's easier to go from a traditional HF to a FoF. Everyone on this site will glorify traditional HFs like Eton Park (primarily because of the ridiculous wealth that you can accumulate if you're good) but honestly you need to decide what you like more and pursue that because going with the herd can only last you so long. And in the HF space, where there is far less hand-holding than in Banking or (to a lesser extent) megafund PE, if you don't love what you do and you're doing it because everyone else is then you'll be out of a job, quick.

Makes sense. Would you say there's a risk of getting pigeonholed at a FoF (regardless of their AuM)?

Dude that's exactly what he said.

HAHAHA yo mane, was just reassuring.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 29, 2012

Sorry, was feeling grumpy this morning.

Aug 30, 2012

lol

Aug 30, 2012

Ayaltis are based in Switzerland I think and run some pretty niche strategies focusing mainly on credit I think. I think their AUM is only around 200m. Have spoken to their founder a couple of times and he's a really enthusiastic / pro-active kind of guy.

Could be a good place to work.

Aug 31, 2012
adast027:

Ayaltis are based in Switzerland I think and run some pretty niche strategies focusing mainly on credit I think. I think their AUM is only around 200m. Have spoken to their founder a couple of times and he's a really enthusiastic / pro-active kind of guy.

Could be a good place to work.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I've heard, read on their site that in 1998 he was part of the group who restructured LTCM's fixed income derivative portfolio, so must be an extremely interesting person to talk to.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 30, 2012

Permal has a great reputation in the FoF space. But it's in the FoF space.

Aug 31, 2012
GoodBread:

Permal has a great reputation in the FoF space. But it's in the FoF space.

Which isn't reassuring at all, but good to know I guess.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 31, 2012