Associate Pay at GS / MS
Hey all,
How pronounced is the Goldman discount at the Associate level? I've heard its prevalent at the Analyst level since exits from GS are top-notch, but is this applicable to the Associates as well? And as a follow-up, how would all-in comp for an Associate 1 differ from, say, Morgan Stanley?
Can anyone actually at GS/MS (or those who have contacts there) share bonus levels at these firms, assuming mid-top bucket? The WSO salary database tends to skew quite a bit, so can't fully rely on that.
Currently at an M7 MBA program, intending to recruit for IB in NYC this upcoming recruiting season, so any insight would be appreciated.
Also interested
$125 base for GS. $150 for all other BB and EB except Centerview and EVR. Bonus is also marginally lower at GS. The discount is real and they are definitely losing the talent war across Bsch. Many ppl decline GS for that reason - most MBAs are smart enough not to fall into the prestige trap
Not sure if "smart enough" is the term you should be using. There are definitely perks to having that brand name of GS as opposed to BofA or CS-- especially at the Associate level. If / when an Associate goes into industry, regardless of whether it's right or wrong, people will place higher value in GS than some other firms. It's a tradeoff of prestige vs comp, and it's unclear which wins out.
Sure If you are comparing GS vs CS/BofA, the prestige is worth the discount. But most MBAs have multiple offers and most ppl will choose, for example, EVR or MS over GS.
is it bad that i can't read BofA without thinking bofa deez nutz
Interesting - thanks for this! And yeah, I was wondering the same - why would people take GS over, say, EVR with both offers on the table given that there is so much more of a discount at GS. Would love to hear otherwise though
GS pays 150 AS 0 like everyone else. Same signing bonus too.
To add more detail: GS pays $125k prorated for the internship, then $150k for A0 and A1.
I don’t get why they’re penny pinching their interns, it just about $5k i extra pay for the summer if they paid $150k prorated
How much does GS typically pay in signing bonus for associates? Is it significantly lower than street?
The base is $125k annual for the summer internship but for full time the base is 150k, in line with other BBs.
Is it the same for sales & trading desks too?
100, 125, 150 3 years as associate for bonus
Yikes, that's low lol. So seems like all in Associate 3 will be roughly $350 ($200 base + $150 bonus). I swear i read on another thread that EBs (MoCo, PJT, etc.) are paying up to that much in first year lmao - quite the stark contrast
GS discount is real and it sucks
1st year 85-125, 150 base
2nd year 115-150, 175 base
3rd year 125-200, 200 base
.
40k higher
Whats the point of even having a discount? They can easily afford to pay street or better. If I'm a top Bschool grad I'm picking centerview every time over GS, especially if I'm planning on being a career banker
This is pure speculation but I think BBs are stingier on comp because they have to maintain higher capital levels than pure play advisors and so are less profitable and pay more attention to cost minimization.
Thanks guys, super helpful! As a follow-up, how would this contrast against MS? It's been mentioned here that MS pays higher than GS, but does anyone have similar data points for MS?
Yeah valid point lol - definitely aiming for the EBs (from purely a comp standpoint, have heard PWP and Moelis also pay lights-out). But EVR and PJT are top choices for sure
This might be a hot take but I've heard the post-MBA experience is also a bit better at EB's. Especially for those who have a business/finance background. So higher pay + a better experience really makes the choice between EBs and BBs a no-brainer, especially if you intend to stay in high finance for longer than a few years. But happy to hear others' perspectives on this.
This makes sense logically. Go to the firm that is the best at what it does.
.
Isn't the exposure to senior bankers and clients better at EBs vs. BBs?
GS/MS/JPM pay was almost identical this year for associates 1/2/3. They pay less for the summer but not that different from the other BBs full time.
That said, the Associate pay differential from EVR/PJT was ~65k for first years, almost ~90k for second years and ~120k for second years. That differential accelerates at the VP/Director/MD levels.
Damn, ~65K difference is no joke lol, esp that this gap only widens as you progress. Guess I know where I'll be prioritizing recruiting this season haha. Appreciate the data points!
Pretty accurate and yeah the BB discount is real. Some of my classmates from b-school who have gone to EBs are now making 75-90k more than I am, and have already paid off their student loans. So envious..! If it wasn't for my international / H1B visa status, I would've no doubt chose an EB over BB. Wish I had the chance. Most internationals don't even think of applying to EBs bc they don't sponsor.
Interesting you say that - at my M7, all EB's sponsor and actively take internationals (only EB that doesn't sponsor is Guggenheim)
Do you mean that GS/JP/MS MDs and VPs earn less than EVR and PJT?!
Significantly less at all levels - though more variable at MD when it becomes more about the revenue you bring in.
Would you say the difference for VPs can be around 200k? For example 450k vs. 650k? That is crazy if true.
Significantly less.
This is not entirely true. The public EBs pay a lot of your bonus in stock. Annual cash the difference Vs my MS buddies is not significant.
Really eh? This is interesting to hear. I say that because people say the difference is around $60-70K as an Associate 1 and that gap only widens. I don't think the public EBs (and aren't they all public now, except PWP?) pay $70K in stock bonus, but correct me if i'm wrong
Wrong. EBs pay way more in cash.
Not sure which public EBs you're referring to, but Evercore pays much higher portion of its bonus in cash than the BBs - and this is quite true for many other EBs as well. This ends up making the differential at Asso1 even more than ~65k in comparison to GS or MS.
This is wrong- all the BBs pay a higher portion of equity.
Don't understand the monkey shit but well...
In my top MBA class:
EB signing bonus + relo 70k
MS 60k
Base both 160k
MS base bumped to 200k on second year while EB goes 160, 180 and 200 on last asso year
First stub bonus 50k Vs 40k
First full time bonus 130 cash 30 stock Vs 125 cash
This is a full 18 months new associate cycle.
Where is the 70k delta???
And if we consider fellowships I saw BBs give 100k fellowship to certain candidates
Your numbers are all wrong. Stub at the top EBs was 60k, not 50k. And your first full year bonus is way low. All in comp mid bucket at GS/MS was 275-285 for the full first year (150/160 depending + ~125 of which a portion was equity). All in mid bucket at EVR/PJT/MoCo for first full year was 335-350 (with between 5-10% of the bonus in stock so 160 base + 175 of which less than 17.5 was stock).
Also all the major EBs give the same fellowships now.
Lol hope you were right! I have my W2 that proves my point.
I can confirm this is correct
I think that in five years you will look back and realize how little an age difference of 1-5 years makes.
There are MBA associates that are +30, analysts who come in after 2-3 years of non IB work, etc etc etc.
If you’re fixated on the age of your cohort you are losing the bigger picture.
For a post MBA career switcher into IB, is BB over EB still the way to go regardless of pay if the goal is to become an MD?
I've also heard on WSO that it's easier to become an MD at a BB, but I'm not 100% sure about this. Speaking to some of the EB guys, like Moelis for example, they tout their homegrown MDs (Ken Moelis himself has stated in interviews that ~35% of their MDs have come up within the firm). Although, yes, you do have more products to offer at a BB, I believe there is just more white space at an EB to carve out your own path. So it really kinda depends and the answer is not as clear cut in my opinion. You're also leaving a ton of money on the table by sticking with a BB long term haha
I think everything you said is true. I’m thinking though for someone coming from outside banking I think BBs do a much better job training a new associate to be successful long term
Longer term for an MD you can basically sell every type of service to clients while at an EB its all M&A and restructuring? Curious what everyone else thinks on here...
I am currently gearing up to start the MD promo process and it is much, much easier at a BB. They just do a better job at transitioning clients to up and comers as they have the resources to do so; EBs are likely constantly struggling to stay afloat - which has pros and cons. It is also so much easier to win mandates when you are one of the key lenders for a client - especially if you are in a cyclical industry and you need your lenders to stay with you in down cycles
you guys have to also consider the % allocation of the bonus in cash versus stock comp at a BB that is publicly traded
Could you explain what the pros/cons are of deferred earnings in the form of stock? Personally think I’d rather have the cash to invest myself but I’m novice
Can you become an associate at GS/MS/JPM straight after a MSc in Finance from LSE?
Not unless you already have two years of analyst experience and then went to get your MSc.
From what I've seen in the past, MSc candidates tend to have minimal post-grad full time work experience. They often times go straight to a MSc program after undergrad studies (potentially due to not being satisfied with job options available to them immediately after graduating), and use that as a "second chance" opportunity for banking recruiting. These candidates are interviewing for entry-level analyst positions alongside candidates who may be finishing their undergrad studies.
I'll caveat this by saying I haven't been in IB for 4+ years now. However, the description above is an accurate summary of the majority of MSc candidates I came across when I was in banking.
That kinda sucks to be honest. I just hate the thought that there will be people that are 2 years younger than me and we have the exact same job.
What if I've worked 1 year in IB/PE/HF before a MSc? That was originally my plan.
If thats not possible, its probably best to go to a MBB, and get the Associate title, and then try to get into IB at GS/MS/JPM? What are your thoughts on that?
I know a guy who had a paralegal background (real work experience), went for his MSc and was in my analyst class. Came in as a 1st year analyst just like the rest of us. The only difference was he was older and the overwhelming majority of our class was fresh out of college. I recall him turning 30 during our analyst program (big night out on the town for that) - so he was working under VPs who were slightly younger or the same age as him. I admit he is likely a more extreme example, but am sharing this as a real world example to give you some perspective. Don't underestimate how hungry some people are to get into this industry.
Back to your specific circumstances. Your 1 year example certainly doesn't seem like the norm. If you were an IB analyst for a year, why would you leave a paying job that gives you the most relevant experience required for becoming an IB associate? Same applies for a PE or HF analyst -- instead of leaving professional world for a year to get a degree, why not lateral to an IB analyst role? It sounds like that isn't what actually happened either. You don't go straight from undergrad to an MSc in finance to an associate role. Think about the alternative talent pools available to fill that entry level associate role. This would include an analyst finishing their analyst program, who has much more competitive experience when it comes to a position that heavily involves managing analyst workstreams (since they've done the job the past 2-3 years). It also includes post MBA candidates, who more likely than not have additional professional work experience (albeit, maybe not in banking) and are applying through a more customary recruiting program (why it's considered more customary/the norm is an entirely separate discussion).
I have no insight or experience with the MBB route, so can't comment on that alternative.
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