Columbia MBA - Underrated ??
Hi guys,
Have been diving into MBA school research for my next year's applications and couldn't really understand the reason behind Columbia's low rankings in the US News (#9). School's notable alumni representation is one of the strongest on Wall Street, employment reports look great (lots of MBB and BB hires), but the average GMAT needed to get in is lower than at other Top 10 schools (easier to get in).
Is CBS a hidden gem for someone who wants to work in finance in NYC? As I want to transition from accounting to finance (investment banking / investment management), would it make sense to apply ED to Columbia and overgo the chance of trying to get into H/S/W? Or are the chances still the same if you apply in round 2 along with other schools?
I am really determined to get into a business school next year but have my eyes set on these 4 schools only. Want to increase my chances of getting at least to one of them.
Thanks.
Would need to know more about you, but HSW may be too ambitious for an accounting background. You should definitely apply to CBS, great school for finance careers.
If he has the stats, he'll have a shot. Just has to be above the median - perhaps significantly so - stats-wise. I did not work in a front-office role (though not accounting) but got into a top school. Stats were significantly above the median, however - that's the compromise you need to make with sub-par work experience.
Does a "top school" include HSW? Professional background is part of "the stats". :)
I heard that chances for accountants at HSW are slim, but there doesn't seem to be any data to prove it. Would be interesting to compare the number of accountants applied vs. admitted, against the same percentage for other industries. Otherwise, there is no way to be certain that certain industry is doing so bad compared to others.
I don't understand the monkey shit. Without knowing other parts of OPs application, everyone would think that his accountant background is not good enough for HSW. CBS, in the other hand, is a real good school for finance (my favourite in the US, in fact). I think that a "H/S/W or bust" approach is not the best option for someone looking for finance after graduation
In your case (without knowing more about you re gender/race/gmat score, etc), I'd apply ED to CBS. CPA to H/S is more or less impossible.
Thanks! I've met a person who got a philosophy degree from a random undergrad, couldn't find a job thus did a stint at Peace Corps. Applied to HBS after 2 years of volunteering and while doing random jobs back in the US, and was accepted.
I would have thought CPA's chances might be better. Also, similar to my responses to one of the comments above, was there any specific data that lead you to believe CPAs don't do so well?
The Peace corp is a tough and largely unique experience (especially for MBA applicants) whereas accountants are a dime a dozen (especially again for MBA applicants). That explains the imbalance.
I don't really know why you'd think it's underrated or a hidden gem? It's Columbia - it's a MBA business schools ">M7 and generally regarded as one of the top business schools in the world, especially for finance. No, it's not Harvard, but most people perceive Wharton and Columbia the among the strongest pure finance schools.
Believe it or not, people go to business school to do things besides BB and MBB, so there's a lot at play in the rankings.
You definitely won't get into H/S round 2. If you want them and think there's a shot (I literally only know 1 thing about you and that's that you're an accountant), go full force in round 1 and apply to columbia later. If you decide columbia is it, then I would apply ED because it will give you an advantage
Hey, thanks for your response. I haven't seen any real evidence that accountants are doing so bad at H/S. Generally, not too many accountants think about getting MBAs (after getting masters in accounting and going through the cpa exam), while for consultants and investment bankers the MBA is almost (if not) a requirement to get promoted.
Are there any other facts that I am overlooking in my understanding? If the chances of an accountant to get accepted to HS are proportional to the other average industry, that shouldn't be too bad.
Tons of accountants get MBAs, accountants who no longer want to be working in accounting. Big 4 kids riddle the lower half of the top 15/top 20. I know a decent amount of accountants at my MBA business schools ">M7, though they almost all had another hook (not just big 4 but then ended up working at another top brand name. Demographic diversity. Volunteered in emeeging markets for a few years. Etc).
None of us will have exact data because school won't give them to us, but my feel knowing people who were diverse and worked in accounting at top brand names, the non HSW MBA business schools ">M7 was the ceiling. So my feel as a top b school alum, and others ITT who have attended top b schools, is that a standard big 4 white male from a big ten school will struggle cracking the MBA business schools ">M7 and will have no chance at HSW. You refuse to give us other info that might show how you differentiate, but without knowledge of that differentiation my informed guess is that you have close to no chance at HSW and will have to absolutely crush certain things to have a chance at the other M7s.
If you want to give us more info, maybe we can give you a more informed guess. That said, it doesn't hurt to apply wherever you want. I spent the time and money in the Harvard app despite knowing I was extremely unlikely to get in, and I don't regret wasting those 250 dollars. So feel free to do the same, but you need to be realistic and include options mostly in the lower half of the top 15 if you really want to ensure you can go to b school in 2018.
Columbia is widely considered one of the most elite schools in the world, I'm not sure it's "underrated".
I would also apply ED Columbia if I were you to maximize chances. It doesn't mean you need to go, you just would sacrifice the early deposit if you later chose to go to another school. Same thing would apply if you just decided not to go to school altogether.
It's declining in rankings precisely because it's overrated. That's why the average GMAT is declining and why the applicant pool is diluted with the ED/J-term crowd. Also funny to hear Columbia referred to as a 'hidden gem.' One of the most recognizable schools in the world, much less NY.
Some good points in this thread so far. I was admitted to Columbia, but will be starting at Booth in the fall. In my opinion, the reason CBS is ranked "so low" (though I agree with others that calling it a hidden gem is rather off base) is threefold; ROI, placement outside of finance and consulting, and facilities.
Note, calling Columbia University and the #9 ranked business school in the country (so, essentially the world) with one of the lowest acceptance rates underrated or a hidden gym is, in my opinion, misinformed. While I chose for personal reasons not to attend Columbia, I was elated to get the admissions call. It is a great school.
ROI - the low ROI at Columbia is not because the jobs don't pay well. In fact, they are some of the highest for MBAs in the world. It's because of the cost; the school itself has one of the most (possibly the most) expensive tuition bills of any school (and I have heard they do not award much in the way of financial aid to ease the burden), and then on top of that is located in the most expensive city in the country. In terms of personal expenses, rent, etc. you will spend far, far more over the two years than at other schools. When employment outcomes are so tightly clustered, that tilts the ROI away from favoring CBS.
Placement - if you want to do finance (especially BB) or consulting (especially MBB), it is a wonderful school. As others have said, one of the best in the world. But those two industries made up ~72% of their full time hires last year. There exists a fairly narrow range of paths coming out of Columbia, again they are great paths, but the somewhat limited placement into non-financial services or consulting probably hits them in the rankings.
Facilities - as you go through the application process, every current and former student you talk to will complain about Uris Hall. The building is "fine" (read: not falling apart, but has clearly not been updated since the 1960s), but when you are paying this much for the experience, and applying to plenty of other schools with fantastic campuses, the quality of CBS's surroundings leave a lot to be desired. Of course you aren't going to business school because it's a luxury resort, and Columbia University is building an incredible new campus, but it certainly has to be a factor in the rankings, nonetheless.
Purely my opinions, for whatever little they might be worth. If you apply - and get into - Columbia, you should be quite stoked about that.
Definitely agree with all three points here, especially the third one. As someone who toured the MBA business schools ">M7 (except Stanford) I can say that CBS is by far the worst facility of any top-tier business school. The facilities will be much more competitive after the new campus is complete, but I don't think that happens until 2020 or later.
I also wouldn't be afraid to apply to H/S/W and CBS ED at the same time. Worst case scenario: you get in to CBS and pay the deposit, then get admitted to another school you prefer. Being out $6k isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things.
Not going to comment on whether CBS is "hidden gem". Just want to let you know that I found very few pure big 4 accountants in my class. Most people with big 4 background have done at least one more "prestigious" job or have unique experience before bschool.
A hidden gem so hard to find, they put it in Manhattan!
Columbia, underrated? Why is this even a question? It's one of the most prestigious schools in the world that so many people would gladly accept admission to.
Honestly I wouldn't put much weight into rankings. It's more about people perception than what publication ranks it at in order to sell more magazines annually.
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