Hey guys, this is my first post so please let me know if I'm doing something inappropriate.
I just began my second year in Big 4 audit with PwC. I was ranked a 1 in my first year and am currently looking for exits to move up. I'm a smart guy, but stayed in state for school and failed out my sophomore year. Ending cumulative undergrad GPA was 3.37, but my major GPA was 3.97 (I got mostly all A's after transferring and turning my life around). I went to a non-target as far as BB IB is concerned, though Big 4 does recruit on campus, and it's not unheard of for kids to get interviews at BB IB.
I've already gotten clearance from a partner in transaction services advisory to join the group this upcoming year (June-ish) in either Boston or NYC, depending on where my fiancee gets into school.
My ultimate goal is to make it into a top 5 MBA program, and preferably I would like to get into BB IB to further enhance my finance skills and my MBA application. I can already model at the level required, and I'm confident I'm intelligent and likable enough to land the job if I can manage to land an interview.
I have talked to others who went Big 4 TS into BB IB, but it seems this path isn't necessarily common. I have taken the GMAT once and got a 730 if that helps. I'm planning on retaking it, as I did relatively poorly on the math section due to not brushing up on probability.
Another option I am considering is making a move into S&O consulting, possibly at Deloitte due to the relative prestige, not sure if MBB is even feasible at this point.
I have strong EC's from college including founding organizations, a successful presidency of a philanthropy group, and student government leadership positions. I also have some level of entrepreneurial work preparing prospective financials which have actually resulted in the award of international business licenses and some modeling in support of a social business enterprise in the electronic health records field.
My audit experience does have exposure to a large public company and I have worked on multiple debt issuances/refinancings, as well as s-1's. I originally interned in NYC on a hedge fund specializing in distressed MBS's.
Any advice on how to best position myself for an entrance into IBD and eventually into a top 5 MBA is welcomed. Thanks for taking the time to read.
Networking is your best bet. Your most likely path may be audit--->TAS--->boutique/MM IB---->BB IB. Might be a long road but it's not impossible.
Have you considered applying to a top MBA program BEFORE going into IB? It would probably be easier to break in that way, I imagine.
I will try to go straight into the MBA if I can't get BB IB prior to MBA. I'd like HBS or Stanford above all others though, and I feel IB will be a significant boost to my app. Thanks for the advice. Any feelings on S&O vs. TS?
To clarify, I didn't mean you should go boutique/MM IB---> BB IB if you don't have to- only said it may be more likely than going straight to BB IB. If you can go straight to BB IB, do so by all means.
Your comments are slightly confusing (my fault, not yours)- do you want to do IB to get into a top MBA program, or want to do IB AND get into a top MBA program? BIG difference, and you'd likely be wasting your time trying to do IB if you only want it to get into an MBA program.
The main motivation for IB is to get into a top MBA program. Why do you feel that would be a waste of time?
As someone above mentioned, bschools admit in "buckets." That means that all IB candidates are considered in a pool and are competing against each other, all management consulting candidates are considered in a pool and are competing against each other, all big 4 candidates are considered in a pool and are competing against each other, etc.
If you are (one of) the best big 4 candidates that applies, you stand a great chance of getting into almost any school as long as your application is solid overall. If you go from audit to IB, you will be competing against people who have probably been in BB IB the whole time etc. Although perhaps your progression from audit to BB IB (if it happens), if explained well, could place you ahead of some of these guys, you may be seen as someone who couldn't make IB from the start and hurt yourself as a result, application-wise. Don't know enough about bschool admissions to say with certainty which would prevail.
Shit, man, if it's just for an MBA program stick with big 4 audit/advisory. Working in IB and putting in those hours will suck if all you want to do it for is to improve your chances of getting into a top MBA program- for which admissions is a crapshoot anyway, even coming from IB. Use the extra time you have to really NAIL your extracurriculars, which will probably be more impressive in an overall application than IB. Spend more time with your fiancee.
Summarily, this is the trade-off:
-stay in big 4 work, kill your extracurriculars and application, and apply as an outstanding candidate in your applicant pool.
-go through the trouble/huge effort of switching to IB, and deal with the lifestyle consequences of that decision, for what could potentially be a slightly stronger application, but could also be about the same level or in some cases maybe worse (that might be exaggerating, but you get the point).
Not trying to discourage you from moving to IB- it's what I'm going into and I certainly can't knock it- but it might be a bad idea if all you want is to get into a top MBA program, because moving to IB certainly will NOT guarantee you a spot in a top program.
Final point: you mentioned you really seem to want HBS/Stanford. I have done a little research on the two (I would also like to attend one at some point- probably HBS at this point knowing what I do) and if that is your ultimate goal, your application may actually be stronger if you move to business development (a top financial leadership/development program at a Fortune 50/100/500 company) or to non-profit work.
A question, and then some advice, if you're open to receiving some: you really want to go to HBS/Stanford- why? What do you intend to do after bschool?
Advice: while going to one of those schools is impressive and has its benefits, I would hesitate to base major career (life) decisions on what will be better for applications because while certain things will increase your chances of admission, no career path you follow can or will guarantee admission to either of these places. Unless you do something like become a worldwide rockstar, or professional sports player, and then ace your GMAT etc. If you can do that, that'll probably get you into HBS/Stanford.
Why not just try and make the transition to BB IB from the start?
I am definitely going to be making this attempt once February hits and my fiancee knows which city we are going to be in. Any advice on positioning myself better for this over the next couple months?
also, it will be MUCH easier for you to get into an elite bschool from audit, because you'll be the best big4 guy they can put into that recruiting "bucket." if youre really exceptional hbs isn't out of the question, and booth/kellog/ross/tuck are very good shots for you
edit having networked with people who have gone from big four into each of the mba programs i mentioned (including hbs)
So would your advice be to actually stay in audit vs. move out to a consulting role even within the Big4?
if your goal is a bschool among the ones i suggested, I strongly recommend it. My evidence is anectotal, but, as I said, each mba program i listed was reached through big4 audit+good grades+good GMAT. From there, you will get all of the recruiting tools for IBD that target undergrads get and more.
double post. but yea, to be clear, moving to an advisory position will not effect your bschool candidacy
Best way to position yourself for IBD is to memorize your story and why you want to do IB, then start networking every chance you get. Transferring to TS/TAS will help you gain some technical skills and potentially land you some interviews, but having a solid story behind why you want IB and networking with that story will pay dividends faster than transferring to TS/TAS. I made this transition so feel free to PM me.
I'm definitely interested in hearing more about your story. Unfortunately, I apparently can't PM you until I have 10 bananas. Would you mind PM'ing me?
Thanks, will post stats in a comment below this one- just curious to hear other opinions (don't want to apply if I'm delusional).
One more point of advice/opinion on your situation- I'd leave audit for TAS/consulting, at the same firm or Deloitte etc. If you can explain in your essays why you made the move (should be easy, be honest about wanting to work in tech etc, and say why consulting will be more beneficial for product management than audit) it will provide further evidence to support your work plans, and may even help you reach your end goal. If you get IB out of an MBA, great- if you don't/decide you don't want it, having some consulting will help you potentially get MBB kind of work, which is another potential path to what you want to do. However, I'd stay at a big 4 in TAS rather than move to some lesser-known consulting firm- keep the brand name recognition when applying for an MBA if you go directly there. That's my $0.02, hopefully it was helpful.
These are my stats, let me know what you think. I know they usually aim for non-finance students in the 2+2 program at least, but I know of at least one pure finance student who has gotten in anecdotally and around 20% of their class are business majors. As you said, you can only give your opinion, but as I said, I don't want to waste my time if it's clear to everyone but me that I'm delusional.
-University: Best university in Australia (according to numerous rankings) and one of the best in the southern hemisphere. Top 30 in the world, if you believe rankings. -Degree: Bachelor of Commerce (Finance major) -GPA: 3.75-3.8 (cumulative) on the US scale, depending on how I do from now till when I graduate. Major GPA is currently (and potentially will end up as) a 4.0. -International experience: Spent over 1 year of my degree studying abroad in the US, and growing up, lived in a different country to where I go to school. -GMAT: 750+ (depending on whether I want to take it more than once- for now, assume 750). Work experience: going into FT IBD at a firm that is a BB (or equivalent) in its home country but probably MM in the US- think Macquarie/Nomura. Interned at the same bank in IB and also have boutique ER experience ("head" intern, if that adds anything). EC's: apart from spending 2-3 months in South America building homes/community centres/schools/hospitals (stuff of that nature), working at an orphanage and teaching english in poverty-stricken areas, nothing that really stands out- senior research analyst on university's student fund, volunteer experience (Ronald McDonald house- cancer support- and the SPCA- animal cruelty prevention/animal care) here and there etc. Recommendations: solid (could maybe even say stellar) but no HBS alums (not sure how important that is). One academic and one IB reference. Academic reference is from a professor in the US (school I studied abroad at). Essay(s): solid, perhaps the strongest part of my application.
Yeah man your resume sounds solid to me. You're over the median GMAT at 750 and your GPA is obviously competitive. Not sure what to tell you about a MM IB though. The work experience part is obviously what I'm also looking to enhance. As far as your numbers though I think you sound competitive. International is a statistic they also like to publish at places like HBS.
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