Decision on energy supply and trading; ExxonMobil or Phillips 66
I'm an engineering student, however I've recently gotten really into finance and trading and have two offers for internships, one from ExxonMobil and the other from Phillips 66. Both are in "supply and trading" although Exxon's is really just supply chain since they don't do much trading, or at least that's what I understand.
I know most of you come from finance backgrounds so you may not necessarily have a lot of experience with Exxon, but I'm having a hard time making a decision between these two. On the one hand, Exxon definitely carries weight in the industry and the people working there seem extremely smart and competent. On the other hand, I seem to like P66's culture more and they actually have a trading desk, which is something I'm interested in. Do any of you have any light to shed on either of these two companies? It'd be great to hear from anybody who has experience at Exxon in supply chain or commercial roles.
My shop works a lot with P66's and Exxon's trading desk - more so with the former than the latter. However both would be great companies to work for.
What sort of internship is it and do you know what you will be doing? Operations, shipping, or risk?
So I don't know for certain what my project would center around, but at Exxon I would either be doing planning/scheduling, transportation logistics, or logistics modeling. At P66 I could get a project in logistics and scheduling, risk management, business development and also get exposure to global trading.
I'm interested in the work you've done with Exxon's trading desk. My understanding is that trading is generally done for gaps in the supply chain, but Exxon emphasized that they value a more robust supply chain over trading to fill these gaps. Is this true?
We deal with the petcoke desk, and its a different business model than oil products trading, so its hard to compare.
This is a very basic supply chain model (* denotes product can be market traded):
Petcoke *Crude oil > crude refining > waste by product > coking > *petcoke > *international market
Petroleum * Crude oil > crude refining > *petroleum > *storage > *blending > *distribution > gas station
definitely P66
Why do you say that? I know P66 is known better in the trading community, but Exxon is a household name, and the projects and scale are just that much bigger. I don't necessarily disagree with you but want your reasoning.
If you want better "trading" skills and opportunities and "trading" recognition, go with P66. P66 is a bigger name in the commodity trading world with a good training program. If you're in Houston, I also know someone who just accepted their offer into P66 trading program.
Absolutely P66.
Like you said, they actually have a supply and trading arm and you won't just be working in what is essentially a glorified distribution center. Distribution and supply chain is a pretty simple concept. Actually trading though and trying to optimize assets, take advantage of the structure of the forward curve, trading basis, blending, etc is much more interesting and a much more valuable skill set given that every other major shop in the world has trading with the exception of Exxon.
Also, while P66 is known to have a pretty strict corporate environment, Exxon is known to take it to the next level. Might as well go work for the government.
Lastly. P66 is a "household" name in the industry even though Joe Schmoe doesn't know the name as well as he does Exxon. P66's graduate supply and trading program is very well regarded. I would much rather work with someone out of that program that actually was exposed to how the market moves and how to trade around it than someone that was at Exxon and learned their incredibly narrowly focused job on how to schedule a batch of crude from point A to point B but wasn't exposed to anything else.
This is very helpful! Articulated basically what I had been hearing from others very well. One follow-up question that's kind of unrelated: Let's say I wanted to try to go into consulting after I graduate. From what I've heard, MBB can be pretty superficial, and Exxon is a name that seems to pull a lot of weight. I know of several people who interned at Exxon who ended up getting hired by McKinsey. Do you think that working for Exxon would give me a leg up in trying to go into consulting?
I am by no means an expert on consulting recruiting but I would still say that P66 would be better. Once again, within the industry no one gives a shit about Exxon vs. any other smaller shop and anyone that told me they were in trading at Exxon I would automatically know that they didn't know actual trading. Whether the company you work for has 10 billion in assets or 100 billion in assets is irrelevant to the things you learn and do on a daily basis. Someone that knows how to schedule a batch of crude or product from point A to point B is not nearly as valuable as someone that knows WHY that product should be moved from A to B. Consulting is all about finding solutions to complicated problems so if I was recruiting for it I would much rather recruit the person that has experience actually using their brain to think about problems instead of the person from Exxon that is really good at following the 3-time-executive-approved-guideline instruction manual on how to schedule origin barrels of 62 grade diesel fuel on Colonial pipeline.
In the engineering world Exxon might be the gold standard but in the trading world they are essentially irrelevant. I currently work on a trade floor of a major crude and products trader and Exxon is rarely even mentioned beyond making fun of their corporate culture that makes you hold the hand rails when you are walking down some stairs.
Just my two cents.
Agree with others on P66. They "trade" much more than Exxon. Better development on the trading skills and more opportunity going forward. Exxon makes company men for Exxon. I am sure it's a great place to work, but they expect you to stay with Exxon for life.
P66 for sure. Good culture, exposure to trading and a very well respected scheme in itself.
As for consulting, both names are good - if you actually end up in a physical trading role though, I wouldn't say there are a lot of transferrable skills that lend themselves to consulting.
The initial years you spend learning the supply chain may help make that move if you don't get the opportunity to trade through the grad scheme as there are semi-relevant supply chain based consulting roles that may fit.
Having gone through PSX's trading program, I would go with Exxon. The FT feature an article in 2016 about them opening up a commercial floor and it is finally happening in 2018. With this startup, there will be more room for opportunity than at PSX. People think the PSX trading program is actually setup to become a trader. It couldn't be farther from the truth. While historically it was called the Commerical Trader Development Program, it was renamed to the Katalyst program, since people entering the program had expectations of becoming a trader that just were not there. There have been several people come out of the 'trading program' that get back office roles like right angle trade support or stuck in glorified accounting roles.
PSX has a line out the door of people trying to get into a scheduler/ops desk and then trading, resulting in many going external for better career projections and pay. Hence 4 people within PSX's commerical group recently jumping to Exxon for clean product roles in their commerical group. On the crude side, scheudlers are rotating operations desks because they have no career progression, which then creates a domino effect of those trying to get into an ops role, since that is typically the last role needed to 'trade' there. PSX does minimal trading. It is glorified marketing around a refinery. If you are going to lose your ass on a position, you sell it to your refinery and make them eat the loss. Great training ground to sharpen your skillset and bounce to an actual trading firm in that sense. But Exxon could offer that same natural short given their refinery system and likely expansion of their Beaumont refinery. With their Permian investment, they will have a ton of crude to trade.
What evidence do you have that Exxon is actually going to be opening a commercial floor this year? There's literally only one article I can find that was written two years ago, and since then no mention of it anywhere.
It is happening. They are ramping up hiring as we speak. Will it become a "true" commercial shop like BP? We shall see.
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P66 no question
P66
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