Deutsche Bank Commercial Real Estate Team
Hey everyone. I am currently an undergrad at a target and I'm looking at different job opportunities. I had a few internships in real estate in the past, all in IS (Eastdil/HFF/JLL), and am certain that this is what I want to do long-term. I loved the people I worked with and learned a ton, but found that brokerage is not for me. I was wondering if you guys could share some information on the DB CRE team (which does CMBS, distressed, and balance sheet lending).
How is the DB CRE team viewed in the real estate business? How is their deal flow compared to other banks/debt funds?
My main worry is that I would be 'stuck' on the debt side. I don't mean that in a negative way, but rather in case I don't care for debt too much. What are the typical exit opportunities for analysts? Would it be possible to shift to REPE if wanted?
Thanks everyone for your help.
I transitioned from debt to REPE and came from a bank that is way less sophisticated than DB. I’ve never dealt with them directly but I see their name, along with RREEF, all the time when pulling comps. You should be just fine in terms of exit ops.
This site seems to stress how difficult it is to shift from debt to equity in real estate. Did you find it relatively easy to get interviews / interest from REPE shops?
I used to work with the DB CMBS team a lot and can say they work on a lot of the largest deals in that space. They have a really good team and I saw people leave from there into REPE so I wouldn't worry about exit ops
If you don't mind me asking, what were the sizes of the REPE firms? Were they mostly small shops or mid/large PE firms?
I only worked with them for a year. In that time I saw 2 associates leave for mid size firms. Not any mega funds, but I wouldn't rule it out if you're capable of landing a spot at one of them.
Also, I am currently speaking with mid-to-large REPE companies in Chicago (think Harrison St / Walton Street Capital / Blue Vista) for acquisition roles. How do these opportunities compare to DB (which is in NY)?
Harrison St / Walton St > DB
Would you be able to explain why? I understand the equity side is viewed more preferably, but I thought the high-level deals that DB works on (such as Hudson Yards) would provide better exit opportunities in the future.
Have you given the DB special sits team a thought?
Yeah, I was thinking about the special situations group. I haven't been able to find a lot of information, other than they do highly distressed lending. How is this group viewed in relation to the others in the CRE division?
Don't think you can make a wrong choice - both are pretty equivalent. If you want to be in NYC, go for DB. Work at a bank doing pretty similar stuff and have met a few guys at DB. Most move to large REPE and some I know went to hedge funds. Also, I think it is great to have a big name on your resume in the beginning of your career.
Two of CBRE's top institutional debt guys, Tom Traynor and James Millon both came from DB CRE in New York. Solid team at DB, and now both manage another solid team at CBRE. I think from an exit opps perspective, you will be just fine.
This. DB CRE will provide a ton of opps on both the equity AND debt side. Should be a factor in your decision if you aren't 100% sure equity is where you want to be.
When talking about a large company like DB it really depends on which team and which silo you get placed in. If this is in NYC and the position is relatively close (by way of working relationship I mean) to Rob Blumenthal I would strongly consider it. Many of his guys have gone to good spots and he is a dude in the business.
Thanks for the input. Yes, I believe this would be the same division in NYC. As I want to be in NYC long term, do you believe this provides a better bath to REPE in NYC as compared to starting at a REPE fund in Chicago and switching over?
It really really depends and even if I had all the info there's no good answer. There's obviously a ton of risk in taking a Chicago job if you want to come to NYC later. Have you lived in NYC before?
Most people do not give enough consideration into how living in NYC will affect their lives. You're thinking about a job in Chicago to set yourself up for a move to NYC 3-5 years later?? How do you know you'll even want to live here. Too much on this forum people think "oh I want to be in NYC because that's where the money is and big deals happen and if I want to be somebody I need to be in NYC." Which is totally not true.
There is a large group of young people (20-30% maybe??) who come to NYC, do their 2-3 years, hate every minute of being here, living with 3 roommates in a small walk up apartment to get by while making 100K and then leave. NYC is a love it or hate it place and you could have a fantastic job and still leave because the city itself rubs you the wrong way. I love it here, I've been here for coming up on 9 years and just bought a place but I've seen many friends leave for reasons I totally get. All I'm trying to say is don't plan your life around NYC if you don't know what its like to live here. Come to NYC to work for DB is that's what you want but don't take a Chi-town offer because you think it will help you transition to an NYC REPE position because that will be silly.
Easy exit ops. It’s DB for Christ sake.
They do tons of High profile deals and were even a top construction lender in NYC last year I believe.
I’m on the fence for the same thing right now. Outstanding offers from DB CRE and top Chicago PERE.
I worked top 25 PERE this past summer as an intern and enjoyed the perspective. All I can say is all that glitters isn’t gold. PERE was awesome experience, but many of the shops aren't hugely recognized, PERE firms (hold for Blackstone, Starwood, etc).
I think I’m going to sign with DB because it has better optics for applying to top MBA programs (more brand equity - the recent restructuring has barely scathed their CRE division from my understanding), has a great history of giving offers back to its summer analysts, as well as greater exit opps for the RE industry as a whole.
Working buy-side/PE was cool last summer, but I’m not sold that it is what I want to do for the rest of my life. DB gives the best of both worlds by allowing the opportunity to go back to PE or to go and branch off into a different facet.
Good luck with your decision and hope to see you in NYC...
Hey jbadger. Thank you for the comment, hope to see you there as well :)
Just as a quick update. I received competitive offers with two other BB banks. All of these are in NYC on their CRE teams (doing CMBS and balance sheet). I looked up the deal tables and saw that they are all fairly similar. Would anyone be able to provide a 'ranking' of the different BB CRE teams in terms of the quality of deals they work on / exit opportunities.
Again, really thankful for everyone contributing on the thread - really has helped me understand the differences between the jobs and where I want to start my career.
DB CRE has traditionally been strong with great deal volume and management who excels at maintaining top institutional relationships. As an analyst, you are expected to run both CMBS/balance sheet deals, which is a great learning opportunity for juniors fresh out of school.
However, compared with other CMBS groups on the street, the internal process at DB is significantly more complicated, and the analyst there are worked to their fiber dealing with organizational redundancies. This vicious cycle has resulted in its senior management’s general indifference towards the well being of their analysts, and a lot of time their junior people would work nuts just to produce something their senior won’t even look at.
Additionally, with the recent turnarounds of its more intelligent and capable analysts/associates, the group is now left with a group of analysts who are toxic and ego-driven. There is no such thing as collaboration/camaraderie any more.
TL;DR great to get an internship offer from them, but double think before you accept that FT offer. I would start looking for full time job as soon as you sense something isn’t going alright.
Just wondering, how do you know all of this info? Ex employee?
no, I work for another CMBS group. Got the intel from a friend that used to work there, who complained to me regularly.
What are the exit opportunities for an originatior in a CMBS group?
If you made it that far to become an originator I would say staying in debt (work at a debt fund, etc)
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