First there was God. Then there was Jesus.
Its only appropriate that now there is a thread on Muhammad.
Or should I say
Abu al-Qasim Muḥammad ibn Abd Allah ibn Abd al-Muttalib ibn Hashim ibn Abd Manaf ibn Qusai ibn Kilab (wiki)
Unlike Jesus, this guy is confirmed to have existed. Question is, was he for real? Did an uneducated, illiterate man create one of the biggest religions today?
Discuss.
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Why the fuck is his name so long
The multiple "ibn" you see in his name means "son of" so that's not really his actual name you're looking at but an old convention of preserving a man's lineage by naming his father, forefathers, etc.
Props for calling it
Bearded guy, bomb with fuse for a hat?
Yeah, I believe in him. I saw him in the papers.
hahaha
No, that is the different Muhammed. I am thinking of a big black guy who just got out of prison. Apparently the names Jamal and Malcolm were taken.
No, but I do believe in life after love.
The great thing about love, and Cher, is that they can come in many different forms, something for everyone.
Muhammad? MENA warlord meets puritanical revivalist. In the back of BinLaden's head, he was restoring this legacy, when in reality the only thing in the back of his head was some AR15 rounds, courtesy of the SEALS.
I disagree on the AR15, that's civilian issued. Everything else is cool though.
Oooh. I apologize for my American ignorance.
so it begins....I say Zeus is really Muhammad
And I dont care about your belifs, so what?
Spell beliefs first, moron/
No one is asking you to care, but I would have thought most civilised people would be tolerant enough about another's beliefs without disparaging it.
Jesus did magic tricks though...
if he's real, then he can suck my dick
Manbearpig, your responses completely lack reason. Also, most muslims actually do interpret the hadith literally.
Are you Muslim to make that comment?
In words of George Bernard Shaw: "although I cannot lay an egg, I am a very good judge of omelettes"
I am not a follower of Islam,but the notion that Muhammad could not be a prophet/saint based on his warfare is ludicrous. Look up King David, or many of the military saints. Personally, I do not understand why Muhammad is so venerated by Muslims- moreso than Moses or Isaac, etc. But his teachings are what is important considers if they were true, God told him to do so. I mean there are so many acts of depravity in the Bible and we still accept them as saints/prophets, etc..
http://www.cracked.com/article_16546_the-6-raunchiest-most-depraved-sex…
Hell, God is fairly vengeful in the Old Testament- so the warfare may have been justified.
God asking Sampson to bring him the foreskins of 1000 Philistines...yeah that happened. Or my personal favorite Bible Verse
That got me all hot and bothered.
GAY
Last time I checked Jesus was pretty peaceful.
لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله
Allah can lick my great big Private Equity balls.
This is exactly what I mean in my other post, which got locked by the idiot mods. Present a little better picture of yourself please.
im drunk
This is so stupid.
1) Why would anyone, non-Muslim, believe in Muhammed? What a ridiculous question and the morons who respond to it.
2) Did your parents not raise you properly that you cant show some respect towards another's belief? I'm from Australia, where honestly, there is a lot of anti-muslim sentiment but this thread is ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm done with this thread. Some of you bigots should be ashamed of yourselves.
I just made my point, the thing is you take religion too serious. I don't care about your beliefs as I don't expect you caring for mine. To be honest, and I mean no offense here, because of not being raised as a muslim, and in a quite homogeneous catholic country, mohammed, or however it is spelled, has the same meaning for me as mickey mouse or willi e coyote. Now, this doesn't mean im a bigot, just that I am not into your beliefs, there is no reason now why I should be interested in them. Finally it means that, technically, the reason for not making related jokes is because I would be hurting your feelings, nonetheless first I wont make too many nor too heavy ones too often, second I would not care if you do the same on your side and third, I believe no intelligent person would judge a person based on its religion, and finally, take it easy, didn't you expected such reaction here? is like if open a why-obama-is-right-and-the-next-best-thing-since-the-internet post and expect love. Cheers.
I'm trying to imagine how people would have reacted had the person who blew up half of Oslo and killed 90+ people was a muslim. He's an ANTI-Muslim. But that's ok, right? ridiculous
Yes, I believe in him. If illeterate men were able to create billion dollar empires that exist today (Mohammad Bin Laden, Saleh Kamel, Salem Bin Mahfouz,etc.), what could stop an illeterate man from spreading the word of god 1450 years ago? and in a very unruly and tribal society at that!
His teachings, when correctly followed, made the region the best in the world. It had all the wealth, all the knowledge, all the research, all the trade. It's not simply a book we follow. It's a way of life.
SADLY, though, a good number of muslims now adays (or atleast the ones you see on TV :) ) do not represent Islam in a good light. Bombing shit here, bombing shit there. Do you really think the Prophet Mohammad would support this? please be reasonable.
His name is long because it's important that a person's lineage is clear and well known (but FORBIDDEN to treat someone better than another just because he's of a certain tribe, race, religion, ethnicity, etc.). I understand that this is confusing for a person coming from a society where bastards (illegitimate children) are rampant and single moms carry the burden of explaining where daddy is. We don't have that here :)
Well, qweryeq, I understand your noble cause. It really would have been a nice and professional discussion had many of the posters been raised properly. Turns out they weren't. There's no point in going any further and exhausting my time with people unwilling to accept anything other than what is already in their puny little minds.
Muslims saved Jews in WWII, but nobody cares about that. THESE are true muslims. THIS is true ISLAM.
[quote=konig]I'm trying to imagine how people would have reacted had the person who blew up half of Oslo and killed 90+ people was a muslim. He's an ANTI-Muslim. But that's ok, right? ridiculous
Yes, I believe in him. If illeterate men were able to create billion dollar empires that exist today (Mohammad Bin Laden, Saleh Kamel, Salem Bin Mahfouz,etc.), what could stop an illeterate man from spreading the word of god 1450 years ago? and in a very unruly and tribal society at that!
His teachings, when correctly followed, made the region the best in the world. It had all the wealth, all the knowledge, all the research, all the trade. It's not simply a book we follow. It's a way of life.
SADLY, though, a good number of muslims now adays (or atleast the ones you see on TV :) ) do not represent Islam in a good light. Bombing shit here, bombing shit there. Do you really think the Prophet Mohammad would support this? please be reasonable.
His name is long because it's important that a person's lineage is clear and well known (but FORBIDDEN to treat someone better than another just because he's of a certain tribe, race, religion, ethnicity, etc.). I understand that this is confusing for a person coming from a society where bastards (illegitimate children) are rampant and single moms carry the burden of explaining where daddy is. We don't have that here :)
Well, qweryeq, I understand your noble cause. It really would have been a nice and professional discussion had many of the posters been raised properly. Turns out they weren't. There's no point in going any further and exhausting my time with people unwilling to accept anything other than what is already in their puny little minds.
Muslims saved Jews in WWII, but nobody cares about that. THESE are true muslims. THIS is true ISLAM.
]
http://instantrimshot.com/
Regards
Added to my favorites
Thank you, I needed that, I hate Monday mornings
That's awesome. I do like to say one liners, put on my sunglasses and play this.
How about sticking to theology, yes?
The difference between the "Do you believe in Jesus?" thread and this thread is truly astounding and wild.
@cphbravo: Do you realize how unbelievably ignorant your last comment was? Come on, get your head out of your ass.
Exactly my point.
No I don't, please elaborate.
Regards
If you dont understand the ramifications of such a statement, you should think twice about saying such stuff. You'll feel right at home in my neighborhood.
Muhammad is a joke
There's been slot of monkey shit thrown by Muslims in this thread. Just saying.
Yeah.. very interesting for the peace loving open minded religion to be flinging shit all over the place. Gotta love the irony.
Wow, you guys are such bigoted cunts.
Especially you cphbravo, I've never heard such bullshit.
You seem to conveniently forget about all the atrocities Israel commit, but instead you're commending them for the ability to kill people which they dont use.
People like you are scary.
Correction! The key word here is hypocrite...
Regards
Let me understand here...
"commending them for the ability to kill people which they dont use."
Are you saying Israel kills people but its not ok b/c they don't fully devour the body using all parts for food or other pruposes like a dead buffalo?
Emotion much?
Key word here is respect.
You dont have to agree and I respect freedom of speech and all that but simply poking fun is different to full of crap statements from cphbravo.
And the monkey shit was from me. NOT A MUSLIM but a man with a conscience and respect for all people. Despite faith, race, etc.
Calling it like I see it..
You left off the part "despite facts". I know I am just some crazy radical here basing my point of view on fact less conjecture.
WARNING Some of this is not appropriate for work...
http://www.persecution.net/pk-2010-07-15.htm
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/egypt-muslims-killing-ch…
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/muslim-grandmother-stran…
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/muslim-sex-slaves-bacha-…
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/07/indonesia-musli…
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/indonesia-thousands-of-enraged-muslim…
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/thailand-muslims-behead-…
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/4/when-muslims-kill-christ…
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/nigeria-muslims-kill-17-christians-in…
http://www.persecution.org/2011/03/04/update-ethiopian-muslims-kill-chr…
http://www.christianpost.com/news/funeral-held-for-christians-killed-in…
http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/news/31620--pakistani-muslims-conv…-
http://www.thejournal.ie/woman-suing-australian-govt-over-rape-advice-a…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/07/07/christians-in-iran-are-given-a-choic…
Take it for what it is. Maybe it's just a big conspiracy. Personally I think Islam is the antithesis of what the United States stands for and I think it's harmful to a democracy.
...but I'm a radical, so please don't mind me.
Regards
Bravo, leave the kid alone. He is trying to compensate for being the biggest pussy on the internet since the day Chyna's porn tape was leaked.
Let's just wait until online forums help him fix his girl issues.
Dude, you still on that?
If you don't think that Muslims as a group consist of the most directed, vitriolic hate in the world you are wrong. Name another group that has an identifiable enemy that they try to kill as often as Muslims try to kill Jews or westerners. I don't see Christians suicide bombing mosques, I don't see Jews (anywhere, even outside of Israel) killing Muslims for the sake of God. If you think Israel is bad now, wait till Ahmadinejad or some other psycho decides to invade. You are aware that Israel is the only one in the MENA with nukes? What would Iran/Palestine/Libya do if Israel decided to nuke a major city in the ME that they were at war with? That's right..nothing or invade. Good luck with that with the US backing them. The MENA is possibly the most backward socially of any place in the world. No where else in the world is there constant threat of a religious war breaking out. Why is that? Because the Jews and the Muslims can't coexist. I don't see the Christians at war with them, even though Jerusalem is holy to them as well. I have no respect for radical Muslims in the MENA. I don't care about the ones just following their own way to God in other parts of the US. But there IS a problem in the community if out of 1bn people, thousands are blowing themselves up and killing civilians. If you don'tagree you are blind.
Comment edited.
I thought this was kind of interesting (taken from one of the articles in shera's post):
“They [Hamas] were committing war crimes by putting the civilians in the front line,” she said. “If Hamas chooses to locate training camps, command centres...in the middle of the [civilian population]...look how populated it is...naturally they are endangering the lives of civilians. Hamas is accountable for the loss of the civilians.”
Using similar logic we should be able to level all of Afghanistan in a week, without regard for any civilians. Slap a done deal sticker on that sht and say "hey not our fault they were hiding amongst the civilian population, collateral damage btch".
EDIT
Not trying to start anything haha. Just saying that in my opinion that's kind of a weird statement to make from a high ranking army official. If any of our generals were caught saying something like that after our marines accidentally shelled a civilian building, there would be hell to pay.
These are two entirely different situations. Now if your example said Canada instead of Afghanistan, then maybe it would make sense. Afghanistan isn't contiguous to the United States and doesn't present an immediate and direct threat to American civilians like Hamas does to Israelis. Israel isn't fighting a "voluntary" war which is intended to thwart future attacks against their country, they are fighting because they must. America goes above and beyond rational measures when it comes to use of force, in some cases requiring armed men to shoot at you before you can engage someone who is clearly a threat...the cost of those procedures is American lives.
Should Canada or Mexico ever be invaded (would never happen, but just go with it...) there is absolutely NO way America would allow a potential threat to stockpile munitions and supplies over the border with the intention, or potential, to harm Americans. Just look at the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Regards
No one is claiming that all Muslims are innocent. What some people here fail to realise is that Israel is not innocent. Same way that Hamas is not innocent or another fucked up organisation that their whole basis for existence is murder.
I just dont understand these pro-Israel comments on this thread. As someone said, the intention of this thread was not anti-Islam vitriol (I hope not) but to actually debate the existence of someone. Although, a little weird to begin this thread as surely someone who is non-Muslim will not believe in the existence of Muhammed.
And let me add, that didnt members of Mossad, the peaceful policing method used by Israel travel to Dubai to kill someone and then conveniently leave British passports there to cover their tracks?
Let's not debate Islam and Judaism as I dont have all the facts and neither I am inclined to believe does anyone else. Let me say it again, this anti-Muslim beliefs here are disgusting and people should be ashamed of themselves.
DISCLAIMER: Not a Muslim but has several close friends who are and I am proud to say I live in a multi-cultural city like London where the Muslim community adds so much. (Again, I'm not denying the bad apples so to speak in Islam)
The problem is, the American media is so blatantly pro Israel and is quick to jump on any act of terrorism caused by a Muslim. Of course, even the way it defines terrorism is a problem:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/23/nyt/index…
"In other words, now that we know the alleged perpetrator is not Muslim, we know -- by definition -- that Terrorists are not responsible; conversely, when we thought Muslims were responsible, that meant -- also by definition -- that it was an act of Terrorism."
"What it says is what we've seen repeatedly: that Terrorism has no objective meaning and, at least in American political discourse, has come functionally to mean: violence committed by Muslims whom the West dislikes, no matter the cause or the target."
Of course, people like cphbravo96 and MMBinNC are quick to eat this up and form their pro-Israel bias:
Key word here is newsThe problem is, because you don't see it, it is automatically concluded to not exist.
But yes, that was not the point of the thread. The point is to debate theology, not geopolitics.
The key word here is news, however, the more important distinction would be the actual definition, not your interpretation of what you thought I was trying to imply. Here, let me make it easy for you...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/news
So why don't you provide some verifiable examples and educate us?
If the OP just wanted to know whether or not members on WSO believed Muhammad existed, he should create a poll, not open a thread for debate. And when you have people, driven by the theology that Muhammad represents, seizing/acquiring political power throughout the world then you have nothing short of a topic surrounded by geopolitics. Just sayin'.
Regards
And I forgot to add, didnt Israel also attack a Gaza fleet with aid for people and at the same time alienated a key ally in Turkey?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/01/world/middleeast/01flotilla.html
I'm officially done with this thread now.
لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله Wow, some of you guys need to pick up a book and read. Retards.
REGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRDDDSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
CPHBravo, you're the most deluded, illogical fucking douchebag.
MMBinNC, you're not far behind.
Fucking retards. Pick up a book or something every now and again and actually have a clue as to what you're talking about besides relying on the right-wing agendas the US papers have.
By the way, anyone notice how the Norwegian murderer is being referred to as a shooter or assasin rather then a fucking terrorist, which he fucking is? Another case of selective agendas.
You people make me sick.
Yea I posted a link on this up there:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/23/nyt/index…
A more violent Joseph Smith.
Wrong forums dude. This is actually a forum related to the financial industry and career advice.
LOL.
It't ok in their religion, as long as they do it with their left hand.
This is exactly the point. Why ridicule? I dont get it..
EDIT Sorry, left myself logged on to WSO and my idiot brother posted that.
Ok, let's start.
Literacy rates in muslim countries range from about 28% in afghanistan (it was less than 12% total before the war) to about 89.9% in Jordan (which constitutionally allows freedom of religion).
Of the bottom 5 countries all are predominantly muslim: Burkina Faso - 21.8% literacy rate, 60% Muslim, 23 % Christian Chad - 25.7% literacy rate, 54% Muslim, 34% Christian Afghanistan - 28% literacy rate, 99% muslim Niger - 28.7% literacy, 98% Muslim Guinea - 29.5% literacy, 85% muslim
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=ba&v=39
[quote=Argonaut]Ok, let's start.
Literacy rates in muslim countries range from about 28% in afghanistan (it was less than 12% total before the war) to about 89.9% in Jordan (which constitutionally allows freedom of religion).
Of the bottom 5 countries all are predominantly muslim: Burkina Faso - 21.8% literacy rate, 60% Muslim, 23 % Christian Chad - 25.7% literacy rate, 54% Muslim, 34% Christian Afghanistan - 28% literacy rate, 99% muslim Niger - 28.7% literacy, 98% Muslim Guinea - 29.5% literacy, 85% muslim
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=ba&v=39[/quote]
What a bunch of crap! I dont dispute your figures but it has nothing to do with this thread or the argument you were making.
1) I am relatively sure that no one from Guinea, NIger, etc is here commenting on this thread. I'm assuming the reason you posted those figures was that Muslims are uneducated and dont know shit. But what about the people on this forum defending not the religion, but the right to have a choice of religion without some moron disparaging it? I wholeheartedly respect law-abiding, God believing Muslims because its their right. Granted, I dont with those who want to kill me but I feel the boundaries on this thread are kinda blurred and many are considering the two SEPARATE groups of people to be one and the same. Again, I question this. The figures sound right but I dont see how it has any relevance. You're saying you are able to judge or make statistical inferences better then any Muslim but I am sure there were some Muslims on this thread. Can you make a better statistical inference then them?
2) Statistics dont really play a part anyway. Muslims from such countries dont need to be highly educated to grasp the norms of their religion. And its ridiculous for you to even bring up. Obviously, religion is passed down from generation to generation, and from then its upto the individual to follow the customs, whatever they may be. Such customs, from what I gather, are ingrained in their being and they take their religion very seriously. Figures mean little in this case.
And even if they do, how do you account for other predominately Muslim countries such as Turkey, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina who all have above 90% literacy rates and are like I said, predominately Muslim?
Go back to my original post. I believe it was about Muslims in general, not specifically muslim apologists in this thread.
We are not really talking about "highly educated". These statistics are on literacy rates, not percentage of people who go on to get a college education.
Actually Turkey's literacy rate is 88.7%.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania
B&H is 51% Christian to 45% Islam, how is that predominantly Muslim?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
Wow. And I thought America was civilized.
Why can't you just respect each other's differences and everyone minds his own business so we can live peace?
I have respect for Muslims in America. Not extremists that want to kill me, my family and my way of life. Anyone who says that Muslim history is not more bloody than any other religion is ignoring reality. It doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with regular, God-fearing Muslims today. But don't try to pull the wol over the world's eyes.
Some of you need to go get laid or buy a fleshlight or something. Jesus.
Not Jesus. Muhammad. =]
Maybe Kevin Smith can help balance the scales here with little good, healthy Christian fundamentalist bashing:
In not so many big confusing words: why do you assume that I haven't spent time around Muslims ?
In order to save everyone some time and bickering back and forth, why don't you just state whether or not you have spent time around Muslims, whether you understand their customs beliefs, and whether Muslims interpret the hadith as 100% true.
Because you seem kinda ignorant on the issue.
As I can't find your comment again manbearpig I'm gonna reply anyway. In my opinion, no religion is truly violent. Most preach many aspects of tolerance, love, and pacifism. It is simply that the more violent passages of the Quran spoken by Muhammed are misinterpreted or given more credence by extremists today than the peaceful ones. In the past, many Christians looked at the violent passages of the Bible and justified their actions in the crusades, Witch trials, etc. by them. This is not as common anymore. Yet this still occurs with Islam today (probably due to the less developed nature of many Islamic countries in the MENA). There is also the fact that Muhammad's quotes are more violen, but he was living in a violent time. Probably something to tell the suicide bombers. Obviously crazy people occur on both sides, the Norway dude is an example of an anti-Muslim who was a TERRORIST (idk if he was Christian or not). The misinterpretation of the Bible/Quran leads to the violence I think, not the religion itself. It's just that it's easier (IMHO) to misinterpret the Quran than the Bible.
I have no idea why it maters to you if I'm 12 or 82 but I'm 21 years old.
Well said. This was the point I was making but perhaps a little less succinctly!
Well said, we agree here. I am not denying that Islam appears to be much more susceptible to extreme interpretation. To me, it seems that poverty and lack of education in most muslim countries are to blame more than anything explicitly written in the Qur'an. The state of desperation that a lot of muslims live in pushes them to seek out the more vile interpretations of certain passages in the Qur'an.
To clarify on the hadith part, no, muslims don't consider it 100% true. It is understood that hadith are narration chains and not 100% reliable. The Shahih Bukhari for example is completely disregarded by Shia.
All muslims, however, accept the Quran as the highest authority and everything else is supplemental, and not even required reading. I am muslim so I can confirm this.
Hey, muslims... you piss me off, I'm going to stop tipping 2 dollars per cab ride so you clowns can't afford your internet connection anymore and stop posting here. LOL @ the smell!
Apparently, you’ve had so many preconceived notions right from the moment you started looking into our faith, that you overlooked the fact that The Qur’an and the Hadiths also seriously highlight the importance of little things that make a huge difference - like speaking the truth no matter what or where, keeping your promises, going out of the way to wish people first, always wearing a cheerful smile on your face, living in moderation and not letting our obsessions(like drinking, drugs, or anything radical, for that matter) get the best of us, being kind to parents, being humble and soft-spoken and not walking around with pride, being particularly good to neighbors, and acts of charity(in some cases, charity is obligatory). Things as little as moving a stone off a road - lest it becomes an obstacle for passersby - is considered to be a significant good deed.
If you're looking for logic, for what it's worth, I'll give you it. For instance, in Ramadan, we fast every day, from sunrise to sunset for 30 days. Logic: so that we may actually feel how it is like for the poor who don't have a choice but to starve themselves day after day – and 'Logically' it instills more sympathy in our hearts towards them. That makes sense right? Like one cannot really know the depth of a water body, just by looking at it. In this month particularly, we are expected to truly strive to make ourselves better (some people who find it very hard to keep themselves from taking drugs, drinking, abusing their body, etcetera). Research proves that it takes at least 21 consecutive days' repeated effort to change or instill a habit. The logic behind the month of Ramadan is self explanatory.
That's just 'one' and I could keep going on, but I know you must’ve probably figured out already that I am a Muslim and characteristically, written me off as a 'terrorist'(or, since I am a girl, maybe a suicide-bomber?). So, considering all your obvious partisanship and/or chauvinism, I understand that I will not be understood here, but I shall continue anyway - at least for the sake of standing up for what I believe in.
Islam is not based on mere speculations and is very much practical. It is obligatory that a Muslim prays five times a day - so that we can actually put into practice the qualities that the Qur'an advocates. For illustration, if you make a to-do list, and if you don't take it seriously or put in efforts to keep up to it, then the whole concept of making a ‘list’ would become redundant. But on the other hand if, maybe, you put a reminder/alarm five times a day, to keep reminding yourself about it (and that it will bear consequences if you don’t finish/do it as required) then what is the probability that you'll forget?
It’s more like meditating five times a day (read: detaching our mind and body from the crazy running-around that we do all day, and making them focus on 'one' thing for a few minutes). Now, according to a research done by a few really smart guys, meditation, in general, has astonishing benefits:
• Greater Orderliness of Brain Functioning • Improved Ability to Focus • Increased Creativity • Deeper Level of Relaxation • Improved Perception and Memory • Development of Intelligence • Natural Change in Breathing • Decrease in Stress Hormone • Lower Blood Pressure • Reversal of Aging Process • Reduced Need for Medical Care • Reduction in Cholesterol • Increased Self-Actualization • Increased Strength of Self-Concept • Decreased Cigarette, Alcohol, and Drug Abuse • Increased Productivity • Improved Relations at Work • Increased Relaxation and Decreased Stress • Improved Health and More Positive Health Habits.
Now, imagine 'meditating' FIVE times a day!
And what's the big deal about women wanting to dress modestly? If you compare a half-dressed woman with a woman dressed modestly, whom will you 'instinctively' feel true respect for?( I mean to stress on the word ‘instinctively’ here) ; Or say, if you had two women come asking you for a job – one loudly/barely dressed and the other appropriately dressed - whom will you take more seriously? (You are correct, and don't worry, it's just basic human nature). Does that not sound like trying to elevate the status of a woman in the society – so she can walk shoulder to shoulder with men in all aspects -rather than them forming opinions about her based merely on her looks? Does that sound like oppression to you?
Moreover, if you’ve nurtured the fallacy of ‘Islam being spread with a sword’ all this while, then I’m afraid, you need to dig in a little more. If you have time to spare and a little bit opened mind, look into the history of ‘The Battle of Badr’. We all know there is a HUGE difference between ‘self-defense’ and voluntary brutality/violence. You'll also find out that those morons who go around blowing up buildings in the name of religion, are in NO way comparable to the courageousness of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), or to the grace and magnanimity of our beloved Jesus Christ(peace be upon him).
You know, judging people before knowing them because of your own shortcomings displays a lack of integrity. With all due respect, I hope you learn to exercise your good old common sense, and give people a benefit of doubt. We, as Muslims, sure could use one less person hating on us - for no real fault of ours.
Here is what Mahatma Gandhi, who as a person, epitomized veracity and non-violence almost all his life, wrote in a published article about Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):
“I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind… I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet’s biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.”
i do believe that meditation has all those positive effects. However I would not compare whatever it is you do 5 times a day to meditation. Simply put, Muslims are NOT chill bros.
Want to dress modestly, or do not want to get gang-raped and stoned to death ? for the one that is dressed appropriately for the occasion. An idiot that wears aparkaburka to a beach incites nothing but amusement and mild annoyance. The one with a more impressive resume. It's easier to throw a labcoat on a genius researcher, than it is to teach a well dressed tabula rasa basics of research.If both have comparable qualifications (and both are of comparable level of attractiveness), then it would be the one that is dressed appropriately for the occasion. If I'm looking to hire a hooters waitress, a deer in headlights who is at the same time desperate enough for a job to wander into hooters, yet dumb enough to have no clue as to how to dress appropriately for the position would again elicit nothing but ridicule.
If I were hiring for a position that deals with lots of communication and interaction, I would instinctively steer away from a woman in a jilbab/burqua/hijab, as to me it would indicate she doesn't have enough socialization to comfortably navigate diverse social situations.
See, you make an assumption than in the western world, just like in the muslim world, modesty in a woman is the ultimate and only virtue. But a western woman is allowed and expected to participate in multiple social interactions and is thus judged on how appropriately she behaves and dresses for each. A business woman wearing an evening dress and diamonds to a business lunch is just as inappropriate as if she was wearing a sheer top and daisy dukes.
A woman who was never expected to participate in any social situations cannot just quickly learn that by observing, as you very aptly indicated by your overly simplistic classification of clothing as modest and immodest.
A burka is not just a garment of modesty, it is first and foremost a uniform. Just like a waiter's uniform excludes him from participating in the party guests' social interactions, a Muslim woman's uniform excludes her from participating in men's social interactions.
Ghandi was also trying to keep peace between muslims and hindus in order to form a united opposition front to the British. In more simple words, it sounds like a kiss ass political statement more than anything else.
You're so predictable, Mister.
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