There's the prestige, long hours, cut-throat environment, and money. The money and prestige can be attractive to those who care about it. I'm just wondering how do people keep sane? I know the hours are manageable to what effects? How do you not lose yourself in finance?
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You can lose yourself if you let yourself. On average I work at least 13/14 hours a day. Have started to feel like I'm losing my identity outside of my job.....you notice it in small things, like I find it harder to maintain conversations with friends now, because all I ever generally think about is work and nothing new ever really happening to me because all I'm ever doing is working.
Ways to keep sane that help me I've found are doing a lot of reading about the world, e.g. I read a lot of about social, cultural, economic and philosophical issues whenever I have spare time at work. Helps to remind you that there is a big wide world out there outside of the office.
Also, you gotta have a hobby - something that takes your mind completely off work (and ideally everything else). For me that's computer art and music production. Generally just have to strive to have another key occupation in your life besides your job - that's what helps keep you sane.
For me, making time for the gym helped.
How did you do this given your busy schedule? Did you block out a segment of your day and stick to it religiously?
I was fortunate enough to have a good gym in the building where I worked. Weekends aside, I'd try to sneak in a quick session whenever I had time.
Not possible. I don't have an identity or personality.
In that case, do you find an identity or personality?
Jeeze....you're going to be working two years in a stressful office environment, not the slums of India or some slave factory in Bangladesh.
True, but 2 years is not long nor short. Especially as a fresh grad or as a young professional 2 years can have a profound effect on your personality/identity development.
Stress is relative. I used to work in emergency services, give me a life/death situation and I'm still game. Give me office politics, academic stress, and whatnot and I can be all over the place.
@Sil has a good point: air conditioned office in some of the largest and most developed cities in the world where you get an ergonomic desk chair, free coffee/snacks, and your boss MAYBE yells at you once or twice. Relative to historical office/labor environments, modern finance has it pretty good if not the best. As far as losing your psychological self, if your self-worth is tied to the spreadsheets and pitches you're making, please get up and go do something else that will feed into your desire to make a meaningful contribution. Finance in no way can be responsible for the choices you decide to make when it comes to your mental well-being.
+SB!
Many entering the profession lack individuality to begin with - their identifies are but long lists of associations. This won't change.
The curious analyst will likely see their creativity eroded over the course of 2 years, but this isn't permanent. Build up goodwill in your first year and take time for yourself in the second.
Only if you let it. I know lots of people who do banking at the top banks and are still totally relaxed and down to earth. They don't think they're any better because they're now working at a big bank making big bucks. These are also the people you would usually have wanted to hang out with anway, cause they're just fun and relaxed people.
I also know lots of pathetic idiots who totally lost themselves once they started doing banking cause they started feeling they were on top of the world because they are building pitchbooks at 03.00AM. Those are the people you never wanted to hang out with in the first place anyway cause they're fucking idiots. You can spot them so easily. Before they get into banking you can already tell with certainty in which of these two groups a person will end up.
Not sure I agree. I have witnessed a number of people who were very down to earth and humble during the first 1-2 years of their job. But once they made it to associate level, they began to be way too arrogant and cocky to be enjoyable to hang around with. The success/money and the culture of not allowing for mistakes can get to your head and diminish your personality. I feel like this industry attracts douchebags but also creates them. Not a lot of people can fight it and stay genuinely friendly and nice.
That's just my experience though.
I noticed a change after the transition to associate. When you're an analyst, you have more of an "us against the world" mentality, so as much as it sucked, everyone was in it together which keeps most of the "normal ones" sane and down to earth. Plus, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, you just have to suck it up for 2-3 years, make a bunch of cash then go do something else if you hate it.
When you're an associate, you get jaded far quicker. You're taking all the real heat from VPs upwards (analysts may get yelled at but the buck stops with the associate), there's less light at the end of the tunnel (fewer exit ops, potentially b-school loans to repay which is much easier with a couple years of banking associate comp), and to the extent you can, you're trying not to kill the analysts because you can empathize with them.
So for the most part, being an associate is a lose-lose situation for the vast majority of the job, so that definitely affects your attitude, stress, personality, etc. which is probably what you saw with those folks.
I think people who get crushed in any work environment, not just finance, don't lose their identities because they never really had one.
I kept tabs on some WSO threads on life and finance written by morons. Moron 1 Moron 2 Moron 3 Moron 4
" averaging 300-500k per year for about the last three years now. Don't get me wrong the pay is great but I just crave to do something more mentally challenging if you know what I mean."
"I was turning to retail therapy for happiness, getting plastered on the weekends, buying expensive clothes, and drifting through life in a stagnant state."
"I'm in my early-to-mid 20's, I work in PE, I'll make nearly $500k this year and I have no fucking idea what I'm doing."
"Sure, you can buy an macbook air without really thinking about it, and you can take taxis instead of the bus. But that's it."
You'll see recurring themes. They make (or made) a grip of cash, tried to find happiness in material goods, the work isn't interesting, etc. Save for maybe the piano guy, I doubt they had interesting personalities to begin with and it got worse with the soul crushing work and the long hours.
And then there are people like Steve Graham . He did an analyst stint at GS and founded pe firm Graham Partners after going to Tuck. He started UDEF, a charity for bboying (breakdancing) and funds competitions. I'd know because I compete at his events. Anyway, he'd go to the bronx and break after work at Goldman so I think the guys I mentioned earlier never really tried to do anything interesting outside of their careers. Obviously Graham is an outlier and not everyone can do what he does, but I don't think thats an excuse to not try anything cool.
Idk why it won't embed but
His event in philly
Agree Steve is an impressive guy, but you're sort of leaving an important part of that story out. Specifically, the part where the PE firm he founded began as a piece of and is still very much affiliated with his father's company, The Graham Group. It's not fair to compare a guy with that opportunity with the average analyst.
Interesting didn't know that part about the Graham Group. Thanks for adding that. But my general point remains, people who are working should at least strive to have a life outside of their career.
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