A majority of people seem like they are pretending to give a shit about safety regulations just for the sake of feeling like they aren’t the only ones who don’t care. I just walked through a major US airport and it was absolutely packed. It was busy to the point where I couldn't walk in a straight line pretty much everywhere I went - not to mention there are also people walking around without masks on. Then I get on the plane and it's stuffed full, without a single empty seat and everyone shoulder to shoulder. If everyone was actually concerned about the virus I have to think we wouldn’t be traveling, or at the very least flying.
We can't really blame the consumers and the general population though can we? People are gonna do what they're gonna do ,and behave in the confines of the guidelines enforced on them. I'll point the finger at the absolute clowns in charge of public policy and social regulation, and their mass amount of acute and insightful followers. Congrats. You got what you wanted. It's actually amazing what some (most) people will blindly accept as reasonable. For example, who the fuck decided it was okay to fill a plane at max capacity where I literally have 8 people within a 2 foot radius, but then it’s not okay for restaurants and small businesses to operate because those are "too dangerous"? What kind of cherry-picking favoritism is that? Just really great to know that we have critical thinking geniuses like Pelosi and McConnell playing god with the entire global economy. What a joke.
Then you have the general media conflating fact and fiction to the point where research and scientific data either seem to be blown to enormous levels of hyperbole, or disregarded entirely depending on the narrative that’s being pushed. There seems to be so much virtue signaling and fake bullshit. I truly find it very hard to believe that we actively still care about Covid due of its supposed risks, but moreso because its what we are told to do. What y’all think? I stopped caring long ago. Keep WFH tho, shits great
The virus literally has a 99.9% survival rate for the vast majority of the population. If you're under 50 and have no underlying health issues, there is almost nothing to be worried about from a personal perspective. This thing has been politicized to hell and back because it was genuinely scary due to lack of information at the start and became a clear tool of leverage for making economic gains + negatively impacting Trump's reelection chances. It worked, but at what cost?
Orange man bad
This is offensively stupid. Yes, the death rate is low, but there are literally not enough hospital beds in most cities to handle the number of people coming in for emergency care. And people that need other types of care also can’t get it because hospitals are overfilled with Covid patients. Mind you, this is all while most people are in lockdown and already restricting their interactions with others. Hospitals would be orders of magnitude more fucked if there were no lockdown. How is this still unclear to you after months and months of repeated explanations?
The low death rate and high asymptomatic rate is a large reason for why this disease is such a shitshow. This makes it spread faster and more easily without being traceable, and that’s the real danger. It’s not the death rate, but how quickly, easily and unknowingly the denominator of infected people grows when people go about their daily lives. That’s what caused 300k + deaths in the US and utter chaos in hospitals. Some cancer patients have been unable to get chemo and some pregnant women have had to give birth at home. If you don’t understand how this constitutes a crisis that warrants a dramatic change in our lifestyles, and there’s more to it than the low death rate, you’re intensely stupid.
Ebola had a death rate above 50% and it was far less disastrous because we could immediately see when someone was infected and prevent the spread. So despite the higher death rate, it was far less threatening to humanity.
Fixating on one statistic while ignoring the broader context is not enough to capture the whole story. I worry about your prospects as an investment manager given this one-dimensional mode of reasoning and your apparent inability to contemplate nuance (although for back office, which is where I hope you work for your fund’s sake, that shouldn’t be so problematic).
Your opinion. I find your analysis to be rather limp and timid as well.
Sounds like government incompetence for not immediately investing to increase our hospital bed capacity ahead of the much expected winter case load explosion to me. The entire point of "15 days to slow the spread" was to lessen that initial stressor on the medical system so the government can step in and adjust capacity. One of the first things China did when they started getting the spread somewhat under control was build hospital treatment areas in masse. It's idiotic to continue forcing lockdowns that obliterate the rest of the local economy while using the excuse "we have to otherwise this one section of the system will be overwhelmed" and simultaneously not doing anything to change that. THAT is offensively stupid. We're a 1st world 21st century technology leader and we couldn't figure out maybe we need to build more beds? Train more nurses? I thought the Democrats whole economic plan for the future was based around being able to retrain people for areas of the economy where we need more workers, ironic.
I have friends and family who work in hospitals and more often than not, people aren't getting turned away because of crowding out of COVID patients. They're being denied service because the government has literally told hospitals to halt treatments that are considered "low priority" and gives funding priority based on Covid caseloads. Sound familiar? It's just like when they arbitrarily decide which workers are "nonessential" and prevent people from working under threat of fines or force. Despite that, in the real world, every job is essential to the person it provides a living for. Maybe try listening to the WHO's Dr. David Nabarro, here are a few good highlights:
I didn't say the virus isn't a problem did I? No, I didn't. But I'll argue till the cows come home that it's retarded to lockdown an entire population when 99.9% of those in the workforce will be fine and we know the vast majority of deaths are people possessing co-morbidities. There's nothing stopping us from putting in extra effort to isolate and protect those individuals while letting the remainder of the population continue to live relatively unencumbered.
What I said was that I think the virus's severity is overblown and has been deliberately politicized. You're the one who is intensely stupid if you think this hasn't been the case. All these fancy new powers and ways to wield authority that the government has gotten in 2020 are going to continue being flexed on us far into the future, by both parties. Look at the Patriot Act. We gave the government carte blanche authority to spy on and detain us with emergency powers granted after 9/11. Nearly 20 years later it's still in place as we continue fighting two wars under false pretenses and after killing the guy who organized the catalyzing event in the first place.
Now we've given the government free reign to declare entire swaths of the economy at their discretion "non-essential", to decide which protestors are allowed to be outside their homes fighting for the "right" cause and which are "inciting violence" and should stay inside, to determine whether or not you can safely hold gatherings with YOUR OWN FAMILY? After months of them perma-fact checking the President and telling us a vaccine before the summer of 2021 was impossible. That it would be unlikely that even if it were created that it would be safe enough to get through approval, and even then it would take months and months to distribute effectively. And now that all of their mewling has been proven utter bullshit, with multiple vaccines on the horizon, we still have a multitude of state and federal officials saying "we just need more lockdowns guys, and more bailouts." All the while in many of these same states, they're evicting people who were unilaterally called "non-essential." In places like New York you have the police finding restaurants that are operating illegally (so the owner can afford to LIVE), ordering food, then arresting the person bringing it to them. And that's not fucked up to you? You think it's all ok because it matters more to "save every life" (including the ones where the people were already dying of their comorbidities and just pushed over the edge a bit early by COVID) even if is means sacrificing long-term social stability? Nah, sod off.
If a private business or individual I am interacting with asks me to put on a mask and socially distance, I gladly will. I view that common decency or the same as a business putting up a sign that says "no shirt no service." That's their prerogative, and if I want to interact with them I have to agree to that social contract. But you're never going to convince me that turning over complete authoritarian privileges to a government that has time and again proven on almost every level to have varying degrees of incompetence mixed with questionable moral character is the right solution to a problem. I'm descended from people who tried that during the 20th century and had to flee to the opposite side the planet to escape the governments that line of thinking gives birth to.
Congrats, want a cookie? Ebola has nothing to do with this conversation. A virus that has a less than 1% death rate for most age groups and primarily kills those who are already sick with co-morbidities is hardly a "threat to humanity" either by your definition. That doesn't mean I don't see both viruses as critical problems that need to be solved, they are. I don't want those sick people to die, but I also don't want to cripple the world's economy and cause cascading starvation deaths in developing nations by halting the flow of products and services globally.
I think I've pretty clearly laid out that I'm thinking further ahead about the implications of what we've been doing to combat COVID than you have. Your clear inability to think big picture beyond the direct effect the virus has on a small percentage of the population while gingerly sidestepping the global political and economic implications of lockdowns and social unrest, is surprising to say the least coming from a supposed VP at a Macro HF. Then there's your pathetic professional dig about working in the back office (I don't) and my future in investment management (which, if you can read my title, I don't work in). You sound like some sheltered elitist that's likely salty about fund underperformance who has to let it out by professionally belittling others while he's/she's subconsciously terrified by that big permanent death counter sidebar on CNN constantly going growing. Newsflash buddy, every death counter only ticks up, so freaking out like that's the be-all end-all measurement is childish. Keep being a small-minded prick about it though, I'm sure it'll work wonders and it only strengthens your broad-based appeal.
Well said.
Constant shortage of healthcare supply (not enough hospital beds, not enough doctors. Not enough equipment, etc...) in the US has been the reason why "flattening the curve" was the right approach in the US.
Sweden could afford to do herd immunity because their healthcare system wasn't going to be overwhelemed. It's incredibly dumb and naive that people think the US should have tried herd immunity.
Also due to governmental inefficiency, the US couldn't even come close to containing the virus the way Korea did, which by the way never locked down.
Although I would like to point out that the way NY and CA are handling lockdowns are draconian and inefficient. Merely just a power grab in those states. They're trying to lock down things that aren't linked to spread of Covid while not taking measures to control major sources of the spread. Of course states like FL are having a shit show of their own not even taking minimal measures...
I hope to God that people see this COVID shitshow as the reason for fixing healthcare ASAP.
Another reason Ebola didn't spread was because it basically killed the person before they could even spread it.
Monkeyballz you are absolutely fucking stupid and the funniest part is you don't even realize it. If your title is of any indication, you work in investment management, maybe the HF industry. Lockdowns in this pandemic have absolutely decimated already poverty-stricken blue collar ways of life. Idk if you live in the U.S. but go ahead and google what % of our population works directly in the hospitality and services industry. You'll be astonished. Employees there are getting fucking killed. They aren't 25 years old like you with no kids. They're parents with bills to pay. They don't want to sit aroudn twiddling their thumbs waiting for a $600 check thrown their way. They need work and fucking purpose in their life.
You just don't fucking understand it. You and most people on this site don't because you all fucking work remotely and are able to.
Ebola doesn’t spread quickly because it’s not airborne friend.
Ok, now explain Sweden. No shutdowns, no masks, just the govt encouraging social distancing.
https://thedonald.win/p/11R4ge7g8L/hospitals-are-overwhelmed--liter/c/
Do I care? Yea, most of my colleagues care on some level as well, this is hugely disruptive and we are seeing it’s impact on the economy (esp at state level and small business impact) and the healthcare system.
not only economically but emotionally the lockdown vs do whatever you want whenever factions are taking a huge toll on people. What I really crave is for people to be a bit more reasonable, but everyone is cooped up inside on the internet and they are just 2x more hyperbolic than they usually are.
sadly even though there is no silver bullet (no 100% clear example of what to do right) it is enormously disheartening for me to see that there is very minimal federal leadership in this, and what impact that is having on the country.
Not to get too political but when this whole situation popped off I was shocked, it should have been the easiest re-election rallying cry imaginable. Instead we get retarded bullshit out the gate to the point where I am thinking to myself that joe Bidens senile ass looks pretty good.. that’s how fucked the situation is lol, never thought I would willingly vote myself into higher taxes but I guess having a mongoloid in office during a once in 100 year pandemic is what it takes.
and I think a lot of people share my view. Lots of folks may be generally centrist like me, or genuinely middle of the ground or slightly left.. doesn’t really matter anymore. This situation really exposed that you want your leaders to at least to pretend to be reasonable during a crisis, even though the president doesn’t have that big of an impact on our lives reasonableness should be the bare minimum for the job.
Sorry if that’s a convoluted answer, but this is a hard question because it really comes down to how much I care about other individuals , which is not much, versus how much do I care about our country as a whole which is a lot I think.
Republican that voted for Biden checking in. Spare me the RINO/socialism diatribe.
The crazed acceptance of QAnon, refusal to recognize science, and blatant hypocrisy in decrying mask mandates as unconstitutional are pushing me further left. Need I mention the endless parade of failed lawsuits? Blows my mind that people look at this behavior and feel inspired or proud.
Another fun one — watching the GOP talking heads pushing forward to get the vaccine — surely you don’t need a vaccine for a virus you downplayed, Little Marco?
What happened to Republicans like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan? Replaced by a bunch of zombies spouting nonsense.
Maybe I’m just a member of the “LIBERAL ELITE!” these days.
There was a time when republicans were conservative and honorable. I worked with lots of them and we could have conversations about any issue. I do not recognize this group of people today. Somehow DJT has convinced them that it okay to abandon their principles. They idolize/fear a man who has no interest in what would benefit the United States and its citizens. The donors are still throwing money at him while he packing his bags and headed out the door.
Lol so cringe to see people say “I’m a Republican but [insert why you’re a liberal]”. Like just say you are a liberal, it’s fine, like a third of the electorate identifies as such and people switch political positions throughout their lives. No need to lie to yourself and others to gain some sort of social currency.
Also people get vaccines for viruses that are not terribly severe literally all the time (annual flu shot for instance) so your critique re: Rubio is simply nonsense.
Yeah no one cares it’s all virtue signaling. Thank god it’ll be over very soon just as I predicted.
Looking at your post history, I wish there was a way I could securitize it, and then short it.
Besides your gramma dying, which I personally don’t give a fuck about, what you, the 20-40 something man, should worry about is long term clinical sequelae of sarscov2 infection.
It’s not exactly flushed out at this point, but there was a German study demonstrating that young healthy people who were infected but not ill had myocarditis and lung fibrosis by MRI.
The proportion of those who had these were (if I remember correctly) around 20%.
Random young people are not walking around with myocarditis and lung fibrosis, so this is what I would personally be worried about, not the 0.1% probability of death (also I am not a fat fuck, which helps).
Source: cover biotech at a hedge fund, plus some credentialism
At this point, nope don’t give a fuck. Have had four family members get it, all had bad fevers and slept it off over a week so tbh I’m not concerned. I’ve traveled a decent bit since July and the airports have been pretty busy. I think this shows the divide in America between the wealthy and poor. White collar workers have been completely unaffected by Covid restrictions monetarily, while blue collar workers have hit a new level of poverty. It’s a have/have not situation, and the ruling class in the US is still flying and going on vacations...I mean doing what wealthy people usually do, and most don’t give a shit about Covid because we have great insurance and chances of dying are slim to none given that fact
Do you realize that arguing "I knew someone who had it, and they were fine, so it's not a big deal for everyone else" makes you look really fucking stupid?
Do I care? Not a fuckin chance. Have fun staying home in your tin hat buddy
I am not even sure why COVID is a political issue. It is medical concern that affects most people in some way. Young people are probably not going to die from it but they can spread it to people who are vulnerable. Some older teachers, especially those with underlying conditions are afraid to get back into the classroom. I am hoping that once the vaccines are distributed broadly, we can get back to a normal way of life.
OMG I CAN'T wait for my vaccine-induced Bell's palsy!! YAS SCIENCE!!
iM fInaNcE AbC aNd OrAnGe MaN BaAAaD
Brilliant. News flash for you: Lots of people think that orange man is bad and not just dems. After his own people including Pompeo, attributed the recent cyber attack to Russia, he send out a tweet defending Russia, which is reminiscent of when he was on the world stage and defended Putin. Republican senator Romney called the POTUS's initial lack of response to the cyber attack as extraordinary for an American POTUS.
Of course I do.
I don't want to get it and I don't want to spread it. But at the same time, I'm not gonna be paranoid about it (or be cavalier about it). Unfortunately, people's attitude seems to be one of the two...
But, what I care more about is how political it has been and what that says about the decline of this country. I don't get why it's so difficult for people to accept the fact that "Our healthcare system is a shitshow, let's prevent the spread so the healthcare system doesn't fail". I also don't get why that message was never communicated in a singular manner. Everyone has their own opinion and they'll do anything to stick to their beliefs, even when faced with facts and data.
If America goes down this road, we're fucked and I'm getting the fuck out of here.
> If America goes down this road, we're fucked and I'm getting the fuck out of here.
Soooo..... where exactly are you going to go? Europe and Japan have been in decline for decades, maybe you can try your luck in authoritarian China?
Triggered like a true patriot.
Yeah not a lot of options as of now unfortunately. But the American decline will be slow and steady until the second half of the 21st century. That's at least 3 decades for me to build up my career, reputation, and wealth.
Fortunately(?), there are plenty of options on the rise.
Japan is making a come back in ceretain sectors. Korea has been one of the fastest growing countries (mostly in the software, financial, and biomedical sectors) among the advanced economies. Not to mention that there are plenty of emerging market countries like Indonesia that are gonna join the advanced economy club by 2050.
I'll only be in my 50s in 2050s so I better start making some investments now. 21st century is going to be remembered as the Asian century.
Of course I do. Especially considering my father is a cancer survivor and my sister is pregnant.
However, there is a difference between “Not giving a shit” and “Not allowing it to control my life and implement fear into me”.
I’m not buying the hospital bed shortage argument..... not saying it isn’t happening in some places. But let’s be real guys, hospitals are a business, they are built to be at capacity not sitting empty. Do a google search of bed shortages over the past 10 years and you’ll find fear mongering articles every single year. Why are we acting as if increased usage is something new to this year? In addition to the above, percentage of bed usages by Covid (flu, pneumonia, etc.) should be reported instead of the blanket “HOSPITALS ARE COMPLETELY FULLL” headlines.
Facepalm... x100.
Why do you think they had to set up temporary hospitals all over the country?
There's a reason why healthcare is so expensive in the US and voila it's called the supply curve sitting far too left.
% hospitalization of cases is falling because of capacity issues. I knew people who had other issues in NY during their surge and they were being sent home from the hospital with some major shit going on to make room for covid patients. People who say this isn’t a big deal are fucking idiots.
Whole situation has shown how unprepared and vulnerable the US is to biological attacks. Much of the population is too selfish and individualistic to adjust behavior in a way to help fellow citizens for a day, let alone 9 months. Absolute weakness and if people had not been fucking idiots this would be a much smaller issue than it is now. All I can say is you assholes are lucky this isn’t a proper plague like the bubonic plague type deals our ancestors had to deal with. Your weak lineages would die off and do society a solid.
An interesting question to study would be: at what age do the COVID restrictions of the past year become a net positive rather than a net negative?
Older people are clearly at much higher risk, so the health benefits of the restrictions are much larger for them. But the costs fall less heavily on them too, because the most at-risk people are retired (little economic impact), and arguably the types of things being banned and limited serve younger people more than older ones.
So the restrictions fail the cost/benefit test for young people and pass it for old people. Put a different way, young people are making a huge sacrifice on behalf of old people. It annoys me that, in the public discourse about COVID, there is very little acknowledgement of or gratitude for this fact. The message is more that "we're all making sacrifices to keep each other safe" along with scolding of kids at beaches or wherever.
Given the focus of this board, the posters here tend to be among the economic winners of the Gen Z and Millennial age brackets. But overall, those age brackets face major economic headwinds in comparison with the Gen Xers and especially the Boomers and Silent Generation. Wages have declined in real terms, and the shrinking pool of good jobs are concentrated in expensive cities where housing prices are much higher in real terms than they were a generation or two ago. And access to those jobs flows through universities that cost way more than they used to, leading to a student debt crisis.
The public response to COVID is just one more kick to the nuts of younger people by older people who benefit more from it.
how i love reading novels on internet forums
U should worry about covid even if you recover some people have long term effects that can mess you up. U could be 20 healthy af and never smell again or have lung problems down the road.....don't quarantine if you don't want to and just suffer later down the road when u get these symptoms 10x worse. :)
You know those frustrating talks at Thanksgiving where your senile grandpa rips you for not putting 50% of your portfolio in bonds or that high school dropout at the gym that won't shut the fuck up about Bitcoin? It's ridiculous how these people think they know more than you even though you're the one that works 80-100hr/week in finance.
Now imagine how scientists, public health officials, and doctors feel about you retards trying to push back on their research and fucking livelihood. Congrats - you are now the epidemiological equivalent of a Forex retard.
Lol there is not some secret knowledge that scientists and public health officials and scientists possess on how to stop the spread of respiratory diseases. Their advice is to literally not come in contact with other humans. That’s it.
Our top infectious disease expert didn’t recommend masks at first. The WHO said there was no evidence of person to person spread.
This is the same for finance as well. Greenspan saying the housing market was strong right before it collapsed, etc., etc.
Idk if you’d listened to that guy in the gym about Bitcoin you’d probably be rich and wouldn’t need to spend 100 hours a week in an office
1. flying is essential. imagine if your lonely family member is suffering from covid in a country across the globe. flying to help them can be an issue of life and death for your family member. indoor dining is 100% non-essential. just pick up your order and eat at home or just order a delivery. restaurant will still make money from selling you food, and you'll still have your food.
2. on the planes everybody is required to wear masks. for indoor dining, you can't wear a mask while eating. it is safer to have 2 people sitting silently shoulder to shoulder wearing masks than having 2 people at a 6 feet distance not wearing masks and talking.
Why would you be flying to visit someone with covid?
cause they're your family and they need your help. it's just an example. substitute covid with any other problem. or another example, your visa expires and you have to fly back to your home country. there are many situations when you have to use a plane, but there is no necessity in eating inside a restaurant.
That example is so stupid haha...are you for real or trolling? Your post history >>
I'm always real. Controversial opinions don't necessarily mean trolling. Some people just have different from common views on life.
I cover Healthcare Services.The “ICU beds are overflowing with COVID patients” narrative is not true. This is literally publicly available information, but if you only read the media reports you would think beds are 100% occupied with COVID patients in most areas instead of 20-30%.
ICU capacity overall is high because we restarted elective procedures and have been routing COVID patients to a single hospital in an area to better manage resources. We could easily flex up to 3x as many hospital beds online next week if we actually needed to, but we don’t so the healthcare system is largely functioning as normal today.
Obviously the media reports never cite any data to back up the “healthcare system is overwhelmed” claim. If there is an issue with COVID right now, it is probably labor availability.
https://www.covidcaremap.org/maps/us-healthcare-system-capacity/#3/42.6…
Regardless of your own personal opinions about COVID, it’s incredibly obvious that most Americans give 0 shits about getting or spreading it. I already got it (and have antibodies) and only coughed for one night, but am still being safe with mask wearing and whatnot
I’m gonna be honest, after the third week or so of covid I stopped giving a fuck, as did every single one of my friends. We all go out every weekend, literally all of us have had covid. I genuinely do not care and if that upsets you then too bad.
I care about COVID in a few ways. None of the following bullets are directed at anybody in this thread or board in particular, but I am preparing for monkey shit anyway cause there seems to be a lot flying around.
I don't want to catch it - I don't think I'll die, but I may pass it to someone who might, or I may suffer from as-of-yet poorly understood long term side effects. This is the scary part to me.
I 100% support mask and social distancing mandates. It bothers me that people get all angry and riled up about wearing masks like its some kind of affront to their freedom and rights. I can't fathom this level of ignorance and/or narcissism.
I have no time or respect for you if you run around boldly declaring you don't give a fuck about catching it cause you're young/healthy/whatever. Fuck you. It's not about you. It's about the woman you pass on the street or the man at the cash register where you buy groceries, the high-risk people who are grandfathers and grandmothers and wives and husbands and brothers and sisters to folks you have never met, who will have to bury them. If you can't parse that and see why you should be wearing a mask and distancing, or at least pretending that you care about slowing the spread, then frankly I think you're an ignorant piece of shit.
I have been thankfully unaffected by economic ramifications of COVID and the associated government actions, but I know folks who have been materially affected and it's fucked. It's a massive wealth transfer event. I have friends and family who are unemployed and the clock is fucking ticking. I don't like seeing people suffering like this. If lockdowns get us to resuming "normal" life faster then I support them but I have not seen great evidence saying that lockdowns objectively help with anything other than buying time for governments to "act". That is no doubt in part due to a subset of people who refuse to follow rules and don't care about the virus.
I think it has definitely been politicized and the media is running with its usual fear-mongering negative bias, but I also think that governments the world over have completely failed their constituents, in a shocking display of incompetence. The beneficiaries of this global humanitarian crisis are the rich and the elite. I see an awful lot of this same subset of folks who will loudly declare that COVID is overblown/not a big deal, because to them it's just been an inconvenience. I work for some of these people.
I challenge anyone who says they don't care about COVID to consider whether or not you or someone you know has been at all affected. If no-one close to you has been affected in any way, then perhaps I could understand why you say you don't care about it - I'd say you lack empathy, but I could understand why you say you don't care. On the other hand, if folks you know have been affected in a negative way, and you still say you don't care about it, why not?
3,000 people are dying to this one cause every day in the "greatest country in the world". How any non-sociopathic human being can say they don't care about trying to prevent/fix this by any means necessary is beyond me. I will also say in some ways we are fixing this at the expense of other peoples livelihoods, futures, and mental health (IE, lockdowns without stimulus cheques to offset the lack of work/employment income). It's fucked and a vaccine (hopefully an effective, wide-spread one) can't come soon enough.
I don't understand why people get so angry about defending/attacking this topic either. Some other posters in this thread are at each others throats.
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