Entry Level Development Roles - MRED Necessary?
Hello!
I am looking to pivot my career to real estate development. In reading through the forum, it is clear a number of individuals have found great value in pursuing an MRED to aid in breaking into the industry from tangential industries. Pursuing graduate school was not something I had originally intended so I'd like to fully understand my options before committing down this path. Some background information:
- Undergraduate degree in Urban Planning, around 4-6 years removed
- Currently working in permitting and entitlements (fairly small scale in scope--use permits, variances, etc). Past professional experience in GIS.
- Based in California
My questions for the community are below:
- Does anyone have experience breaking into the development industry with similar experience?
- An obvious area of weakness is not having education or work experience in a finance related role. Any ideas on how to shore that up beyond pursuing an MRED?
- Related to question #2, I have my eyes on some online courses (A.CRE Accelerator). I don't expect this to add the same kind of value to my resume as a degree, but can the skills developed from an online course alone parlay well into an entry role with a boutique development shop?
- I have a hunch that there are limited entry level positions currently available and that these are unlikely to go to individuals with non-traditional backgrounds. With the current climate of the industry, I'm thinking pursuing an MRED now is the more efficient use of time to better align entry when the job market is more favorable. I am wary of pursuing a self-study route only to spin wheels while the job market expands. Perhaps someone has better insight on this.
- It appears current USC and Berkeley MRED tend to already have a wealth of experience in the real estate industry and are mostly benefitting from this as a networking experience. Looking at these two programs specifically due to target location. In comparison, my current profile is not looking very strong knowing that class sizes are around 25 admits (with admissions statistics generally unavailable). Am I misguided in my understanding that an MRED could assist in a career pivot?
- Lastly, as a general question, does anyone have tips on networking with some of the smaller players in LA?
Very much appreciate any insight and guidance!
I'll take a crack at these...
Sure (not me personally), but a lot of people in development have UG degrees in urban planning and have worked in permitting/entitlements, GIS can be valuable but not on a daily basis for the most part. I'm sure some also live in California. Overall, your background is fine, maybe not the most common, but not uncommon either.
Not all development know the 'finance' side or need to, especially at the associate or even jr. manager level. You can learn what you need. Many come from const. mngt/architecture... Just expect to asked to focus on the entitlements, planning/design, and maybe project/const mngt side of the business, at least at first.
Not really sure, clearly it can't harm you. I wouldn't expect those courses to make you any kind of a real finance/modelling expert. Not bad to have some familiarization with it, but you won't stand your ground with the armies of excel trained MBA/MSRED grads out there, or those with finance backgrounds overall. Your strength is in the planning/design/entitlements area, play to that. You will beat the pants of those 'finance' types in those domains. In short, play to your strengths if you want to get hired.
I wouldn't just assume this, network and talk to people to find out. I've seen people get hired recently in development. I also know of firms likely to post positions this fall even in this market. You are also undervaluing your background a lot, it does have value in the development process. It is also not all that non-traditional for development. That said, getting an MRED would probably massively valuable to you given your background and desires. And yeah, not a bad time market wise, stuff will be slower. I don't think NEED one because you are unqualified, you may need one because grad degrees in general are becoming needed because so many people are getting them. Plus, then you can bridge some deficiencies like financial modeling.
Not sure I understand the question, USC and UC-Berkeley are both amazing, lots of alum in real estate. You could not go wrong with either. UCLA/USD/UCSD also impressive. Your admit chances will hinge on UG GPA and maybe grad test scores, your work exp/background should be major pluses (im guessing on that one, but makes sense).
In LA, ULI is the powerhouse organization (NAIOP is good too I think). The alumni advisory board of USC is big time also. Those are places to start, otherwise I can't think of anything to LA specific (I'm in NYC, but my firm has a west coast office, so I know the area).
Good luck.
Thanks for the feedback and insight redever. Hope you don't mind a few follow-up questions.
1&2) Noted, that's great to hear. It was my assumption that most in-house jobs are primarily finance focused with land use/entitlement heavy lifting handled by outside consultants (not all cases of course). Would an entry level role at a development company with a focus in entitlements (or project management) be something along the lines of a Development Coordinator? Or is there another role/title I can look into for reference/guidance?
4) This makes a lot of sense. I imagine networking with companies directly is the best way to keep an eye on openings, but for companies I might not be aware of, is there a job board these positions tend to be posted on?
5) I am trying to gauge if it is appropriate to apply for an MRED program now as a means of breaking into the industry, or if an MRED degree is best used to boost career opportunities for those already in the industry.
Thanks again for the thorough feedback.
follow-up answers...
1&2 - For the purposes of 'oversimplification'...... development teams tend to have two camps of people... 1. The finance/deal/real estate people and 2. Design/construction types. This is overly simplified, but I've observed it to be more or less true at a lot of places. Not everyone starts from 'finance', that is for sure. The design/entitlements/planning phase is very critical in the development process, everyone is engaged, generally from both sides as deal is still 'coming together'. Once construction starts, the 'finance' team may move on the next acquisition while the 'design' team moves into project mngt mode. Some shops are more segmented by function, but many orient the teams by projects, so really you can't generalize that easy.
Honestly, I'm not sure what 'Development Coordinator' means. Our firm (and many others), follows a pretty standard path of Dev. Associate --> Dev. Manager --> Director --> VP --> SVP/EVP --> C-level. At Director/VP level, sometimes 'of Construction' or 'of Leasing' or 'of Acquisitions' etc. gets added. Or some just seem to by 'Director of Development' for example. Again, every firm is different, but development people have to wear a lot of 'hats' (as the saying goes) so expect to be versatile by nature.
And yes while consultants/lawyers/engineers/architects are used to actually do design and get entitlements, you cannot just hire these people and expect them to bring back a final product that is any good. The development firm has to decide what to build, it must be highly involved, it really is not 'outsourced' just specific tasks where appropriate.
Most jobs go to LinkedIn/Indeed, there is website called Select Leaders that is just real estate focused, but I'd say most firms use LinkedIn as primary source these days. Keep in mind that development teams can be very small, even if doing billion $ projects, so positions are not always open and can be random. This is why networking is so critical, sometimes teams decide to expand because they find the right person, then create the job opening for them.
There really isn't a 'right' answer to this. A lot of MSRE/D programs have opened themselves up to people straight out of UG and those with work exp. but no real estate exp or even anything related. Many of those people will absolutely get a real estate job (institutional investor, developer, lender, broker, cap markets, appraisal, just about everything) at graduation. Doing an internship in the industry is the critical step to make it most possible.
Exp. real estate people also get MSRE/Ds for career acceleration, not having a grad degree can be a real handicap long-term just because so many people have them. If you already 'know' the business, the curriculum of an MSRE/D may be uninteresting or not very valuable. For that reason, many chose to go the MBA route instead (that is WSO wisdom for sure). Personally, I don't think it matters, as the real value for exp. people is certification (i.e. check grad degree box), and the network it opens, prestige of school matters but way down the list in my personal opinion (the target non-target thing is really misunderstood on WSO, I did a post/rant on this awhile back).
So for you, sure you seem like the type who could benefit now from an MRED (and USC UCB are great places), but you could try and get a job now without one and figure it out later. I mean, no 'right' answer, either make sense. Going back to school in a 'slow' market can be smart, but programs aren't cheap and debt sucks (if you have the money, or parents can pay, then I would absolutely say to go now). So really, you just have to make a personal judgement call.
In reference to getting an MRED for those who are already experienced, would you say the time and money spent pays off in order to be "better" qualified" in applying for higher positions or promotions? Are you seeing people making faster jumps with it than if they didn't have it? MRED/MSRE advice is always a mixed bag of responses across this forum.
This is incredibly individualistic. I mean, depends on one's overall profile (like industry, city, role, UG background, other credentials, etc.). Frankly, some true 'hustler' types will probably move far regardless, but for others it is beyond critical to get a grad degree (whether MSRE/D vs. MBA is a whole other debate, hell throw JD in the mix if you want to have fun).
I made a long comment to a similar question a while back, but not sure if could find easily. The jist was this....
The more people get grad degrees, the lower marginal benefit getting one will provide. BUT the 'penalty' for not having one also increases. It's a competitive dynamic, and it is what it is.
What I have seen and heard many times (generally post 08 downturn), is employers who post UG required, Grad degree preferred jobs that get so many responses from those with grad degrees they never even look at the UG ones. Now, some come out of UG and take internships (expect this to go up in next year or so). I had a friend who got her MRED from a good school in the southeast say it like this (time was 2009)... "Those with grad degrees are taking the jobs UGs used to take, and UGs are taking internships post graduation". When the job market ticked up, this became less true. But in downtimes, its a fact, those with grad degrees have more job stability and get rehired faster if laid off.
So, I guess I think grad degrees are needed. Which one you get is based on well, where you get accepted into first..... then maybe prestige/network, city, curriculum.. or something like that. If you already 'know' a lot, then curriculum matters less (and MBA could be more valuable). If you are new, then it matters a lot more. So part of the question is, does your 'experience' really make the knowledge from the MRED courses needed or not.... that will change person by person.
Clearly, only you know you, following heard wisdom of a place like WSO (which MBA business schools">M7 MBA or die), is not a real strategy.
I'll admit I still remain split on it and I think its also hard to indicate if the OP would benefit from going into one in the near term. I definitely agree with you in that it depends on the individual and that hustlers could probably do fine without it. I think it certainly is becoming more of a standard for institutional shops, but I wonder if boutiques and smaller shops will follow that as well?
My main drawback would be that we are in a recession, but capital is not locked up. Its not comparable to the last recession, and I am seeing roles for development and asset management coming up, no acquisitions though. I'm guessing developers are potentially trying to take advantage of a fall in prices for inputs needed since the time it will take to deliver a project to market will match the time it takes for the economy to recover. I'm seeing it on this forum right now. Someone is weighing offers between Greystar and Brookfield. I know its one data point and may not be completely representative for the majority, or the OP for the matter, but i wouldn't expect that two big scale developers are hiring right now, if they didn't think it would payoff. I'm not pushing against you, I'm just throwing some different things that are going on at the moment and have seen you as a strong and valuable contributor on here.
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