I can tolerate late nights but this is one of the first things to make me viscerally mad. Bunch of wanna-be (or in some cases, actual) hardos. From news.efinancialcareers.com "Taking paternity leave the ‘kiss of death’ for bankers"
"But managers and colleagues at investment banks, hedge funds and other high-paying financial firms will look down on any father taking more than a few days away from the office, likely limiting future chances of being promoted"
| +89 | GF doesn’t care about her looks | 57 | 7h | |
| +57 | Affair with my Associate… In Desperate Need for Advice | 23 | 1d | |
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| +28 | Why do people listen to Jim Cramer Investing Advice? | 11 | 4h | |
| +27 | Carnivore Diet | 12 | 7h | |
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| +24 | Chaotic Insane investment banker who passed away in the 90s or 2000s | 12 | 1d |
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Lol what losers man. They can keep their money. I’ll keep my health. In the end, health=wealth.
Not even your own health, your children's health/upbringing
Is there anything more important?!
No.
So funny. The odds of making it to that top spot (where millions are made) is so small. The rest of it can easily be duplicated (income wise) many other ways, maybe not as quickly, but for a much longer period of time. Work / Life balance is so much better virtually everywhere (unless you count med school / law school, etc)
No such thing as vacation in IB, let alone paternity lol. cant w8 to bounce
I think we've crossed paths before, but what's next for you? The article actually speaks for HFs, etc. (and finance more broadly) though obviously the lack-of-consideration is likely similar everywhere
I'm only a first year analyst (almost 2nd) and really don't know shit. But I'm hoping Hedge Fund hours will be significantly better because I work at least one all nighter and 1-2 4AMers a week.
http://www.streetofwalls.com/finance-training-courses/hedge-fund-traini…
In this article it says i can get out at 6pm, if i could leave at 7pm that would be great. Would be like a vacation everyday tbh. Whenever I'm released that early in banking i can honestly say i dont know what to do with that much free time. Leaving at 7pm would guarantee i workout at least once a day.
Jeez, that's brutal. I do think HF hours can be much better (though you'll also be getting in much earlier) - especially vs. your current setup. Did you recruit on-cycle?
Why are you working like this? Are you inefficient?
try an infamous boutique where there was a staffer email circulating this forum
12 hr days... get in about 2 hrs before market open. RIP working market hours on the west coast.
You’re getting royally screwed in the ass if there’s “no such thing as vacation” at your bank. If you’re not being facetious/hyperbolic, that sounds fucking terrible.
This OP has not been my experience (worked at more than a few BBs). I suppose it depends on who you work for...like most things.
big difference in culture btw S&T desk and IB
Woah, that's not true at all over here in Chicago banking. Every dude I know who has had a child has taken at least a week off, most have taken two.
I believe it. Midwest/Chicago culture > NYC. I honestly despise most NYC people that I've met/heard about. Just sound overly arrogant, rude, etc. NYC has thee most toxic working culture EVER. holy sh1t.
NYC = big leagues
It's called Sociopathy, it runs the city.
What are the hours like in Chicago as compared to NYC? Obviously depends on the firm, but from what you know is it substantially different or just more flexible?
Hours are typically 9:30~late. Not much better than NYC, but WFH is encouraged and a lot of people roll out around 7-8 PM and then log back on from their apartments.
lmao at acting like getting a single solitary week off when you have a kid is some sort of positive, that's pathetic. 2 weeks should be the minimum and really a month is appropriate. My gf could barely fuckin' move for 2 weeks after she gave birth to my kid...
Things are not necessarily different elsewhere. The Big4 I work for has 16 weeks available to male or females. I’ve had two kids, both times I got shit for taking 2 weeks. Grass isn’t always greener
I'm confused too cus at least at a bunch of banks in Boston, MD's are only in a couple times a week and take plenty of vacations. Even my VP's took time off this summer.
Don't know why people still bitch about this. The problem here is not the people taking paternity leave - it's the ones who don't. Why should a father of two be promoted in front of the guys that are in the office grinding every single day? You're being compared to your peers and when they put in more hours, they should, on average, be promoted more frequently.
High finance can be compared to professional sports, the ones who sacrifice the most are the ones who will reach the highest. Being promoted to MD or playing in the NFL is not a human right.
What the fuck are you talking about? Why should 2-3 months (assuming you take a month per kid) out of potentially ~15 years of a career matter in the long-term? The problem is the people who rationalize this garbage. If you're doing good work before and after your time off who gives a shit about some dude "grinding"? Is that supposed to be some proxy for doing good work?
Kind of hard to believe you're in this industry and still not fully aware of how these things work? It's a pyramid. For every dude doing "good work", there is someone staying later than him or otherwise doing great work. There are fewer seats as you move up. It is a competition. Hardest working / most productive members get rewarded. Money is a limited, tangible asset and not everyone can pass go and collect $1 mm compensation packages as MDs or partners.
These are facts, not subjective or debatable points - not everyone doing "good work" is going to climb to the top of the investment banking or private equity ladder.
First of all, the article generalizes a lot. There are big cultural differences between shops and IB vs. PE vs. HF. I'm assuming we're talking about the sweatshops of the industry here.
That "some dude grinding" is not just anybody. It's most likely someone who was educated at the same school as you, who got the same grades as you and who delivers the same quality work as you, but didn't take those 2-3 months off. In the long-term, I agree with you, that time off does not matter a lot. However, when you are competing for one of the VP/MD/Partner slots it's a game of margins. It can be compared to the Tour de France; Sure, they are all fantastic cyclists, but only one wins the tour every year. How can you rationale promoting the "father" over the "grinder" all else equal?
Your opinions are always so strong. Is there anything you don't passionately agree/disagree with? or is it all-in on everything?
It's completely hilarious to me when finance people compare themselves to pro athletes. Absolutely absurd to think that finance or business is as much of a meritocracy as the NFL. Everything in the NFL ultimately boils down to performance on the field and nothing else. These dudes can't coast on their "prestige" in bad years like the thousands of MDs coasting on their Harvard connections their entire lives. It doesn't matter if you played for Alabama in college because the minute you don't perform on the field for whatever reason your career may be over. Financiers compare themselves to pro athletes to make themselves feel better that there's 1000s of dudes exactly them just on the island of Manhattan alone.
You clearly don't get it. Hours worked and days in the office don't equate to productivity or revenue generation. Also, no one can sustain "more" hours than hard working people over the long run. You burn out and your productivity decreases.
Before I left IB to start my own company, I was working fewer hours each year (while being offered a partner position at a very good boutique). The more years I put in, the easier it all became. I got paid more and worked less. That is generally how life should be. The best bankers I know aren't the ones who work the most hours. In fact, I'd say that it's almost the inverse. Amongst senior bankers, those who work the least are often the most successful, but they've generally earned that right.
If you read my comments I am not saying that hours in the office equal productivity or revenue. I came out swinging in my initial comment because a lot of people here seemed to think that there are two types of senior bankers: loving fathers/dealmakers and antisocial weirdos who sleep at the office 9 days a week. I saw it as a discussion of "all else equal", should you promote the SVP who took paternity leave or the SVP who didn't.
I tend to think of it the other way around. The reason why good bankers work less is because they once put in what was required to get to the top. Just like working out, it takes a less lifting to maintain than to grow muscle. Ie. they didn't achieve their success because they were working fewer hours, but rather works fewer hours because they now achieved success.
Can't take the heat? Get out of the kitchen!
A new born is a sack of potatoes. Why would you want to take time off other than being guilted into it.
And if you want to take time off, just ducking do it.
I took time off to help my GF out, the fuck you talking about? Childbirth is hard and physically demanding. She wasn't good to even drive for 3 weeks...
Lol fuck whoever gave you monkey shit for saying something completely sane. Majority of the fools giving you shit will likely never move beyond being a keyboard warrior.
Depends how long you want to stay with your wife/significant other. Divorce will cost you a lot more in money out the door and time off of work than a 2 week vacation.
Did you not see the second sentence?
Fine I'll leave it.
I'm a bachelor, so what do I know? But if I were in this situation, I think I'd take one "true" week off (at home and not answering emails/calls) and then work from home for an additional week so I could help my wife out and/or run to the store if she needed anything.
After that, I think I'd have to go back. Two weeks seems reasonable, with the second week being working from home to some extent and being able to take questions from juniors but not going balls to the wall for 70-80 hours.
This isn't really industry specific just FYI. In almost any industry, when you're near the top, you end up working like that and almost all the people I know doing it love it.
Probably not healthy but hey...
It's as if people thought reaching some level of significance within financial services came easy.
I can’t imagine the humiliation that would come with telling my family that I’m going back to work a few days after my wife gives birth to my child. Not taking time off doesn’t signal that you are some BSD; it signals that you are a sniveling company man with no backbone who is afraid of what your big bad boss might say.
Which is why you'll never be some BSD. Real BSDs don't have their nuts in their wife's purse. Michael Jordan was on the basketball court the day after his son Marcus was born leading the Bulls to beat the Pistons by 37 points.
This reads like some motivational quote I’d see in middle school. Absolutely painful to see grown men compare their office jobs with being a professional athlete.
I swear I see posts titled "fuck this industry," "fuck finance," or some other derivative every single week. Stop bitching, you all know what you signed up for.
If you really hate your job, get a masters in CS and enter tech; salaries are almost similar but you only work 40 hrs a week (and out of those 40 hours, probably only 10 hours of real work)
Yes...well...if you work at consultant shops in tech hours vary (from friends). Startup and small companies expect 50-60 hours a week.
My old company you needed to grind roughly 40 hours of work a week + extra time for projects (around 50-60 hours) weekly. However, if you worked with the product team your hours are comparable to investment banking (as salary wise, too).
If you want good work/life balance, go into nursing/x-ray tech. 2-3 years of classes and you get into one of the high demand fields currently.
I don't understand why people complain about finance and the hours. There is nothing new to the industry that people who want to work in the industry already does not know.
Everything is a trade-off (shrugs).
...
Let's assume you start banking at 21. Don't most people leave after 2-4 years? Let's also assume you have a kid at around 30. Surely after 8-9 years of banking you're senior enough to tell people you're taking paternity leave without worrying about getting fucked?
If you're serious, a lot of post-MBA Associates are between 28-36 years old which is prime baby time.
Paul Tudor Jones
"So now, let's take the typical female that enters the workforce. In my 20s, then I was exposed to the pits and I had this incredible ... I was getting all this information because I was there at ground zero during one of the most explosive times in history of the futures markets. And it was fantastic. So my most formative ages, which were 21 to 30, I was there again now 10,000 reps became 20 or 30,000 reps. Take a girl that was my age at that point in time, particularly back in the '70s. I can think of two that actually started E.F. Hutton with me. Within four years, by 1980, right when I was getting ready to launch my company they both got married. Then they both had — which in my mind is as big of a killer as divorce is — they both had children. And as soon as that baby's lips touched that girl's bosom, forget it. Every single investment idea, every desire to understand what's going to make this go up or go down is going to be overwhelmed by the most beautiful experience which a man will never share about a mode of connection between that mother and that baby. I just see it happen over and over."
I think the problem in this industry is that money is all that matters. Not every group is terrible, not every boss is a jerk. I've had amazing experiences in finance, and terrible experiences in finance, and they were all driven by who the boss was. The problem is that a jerk boss can thrive, because the company or group makes money. One can be a total sociopath, and not get called on it, if the money keeps flowing.
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