Getting into WallStreet as a German undergraduate
Dear WSO Community,
I really need your help because there is an enormous amount of questions on my mind considering my difficult situation. But first, let me introduce myself:
I'm a 19 year old german student attending a mediocre, non-target german University studying Economics. Due to skipping a class back in primary school when i was 6 years old (im not a genius, i was just better at math than the others, because my dad tought me a lot) im one of the youngest if not the youngest students in my grade. When i finished high school I was 17 having absolutely no idea what to do with my live, so I just went to study Economics because i found it kind of interesting. For the first 1,5 years I just casually went to the courses and pursued my degree without a lot of dedication.
However, at 18 years old I REALLY got into Finance after acing a test on Investment Theory, especially stocks. I spend the vast majority of my free time at home learning about stocks, bonds, derivatives, etc. I even bought some stocks and bonds with my freshly created bank account.
Fast forward to the present day: I see my future in finance and thats what i want to do for the next decades. I don't have problems working 60-90 hours, because i enjoy the subject so much, but i also want to earn a lot of money. My goals are as following:
- Doing a graduate program in the US after my bachelor in Germany to network
- Get a wall-Street Job in the US after graduation and work my ass off
- Obtain a work visa and then a green card and longterm become a US citizen (I wanted to migrate to the US all my live and this looks like the perfect opportunity)
Now I realize this isn't going to be easy. And there are difficulties that i want to talk to you about. First of all, my GPA is 3,0 right now due to no motivation for the first half of my undergraduate program. I will have my bachelors degree around September 2019 and I can probably push my GPA to 3,1 or 3,2. However, I looked into the WSO Investment Report and considering the data all of the target schools (where Bulge-Bracket banks and smaller banks recruit) require a 3,5+ GPA to get in. I can try to get a 700+ GMAT to boost my chances of getting into a target, but I also have 0 internships and i didn't network at all. I worked in a supermarket for 3 months, but I guess that isn't going to boost my CV. In the internet i find a lot of advice for people that finished high school and are looking for the right college to pursue their undergraduate degree. However, my special situation being from Germany and already having a bachelor i find almost no information.
What would you recommend me to do, if Wall Street is my end goal? Trying to find an american non-target-university that accepts my german bachelor and try to network their while getting my Master of Finance? Or would you recommend getting an MBA at a non-target instead? Or should I do an undergraduate program all over again starting with 20 years of age completely losing my age advantage? Should I take one year off trying to get some internships and doing some volunteer work to get into a semi-target? Or is all hope lost and i should accept my fate of never getting a WS-Job...
If some of you spared a little bit of their experience and wisdom regarding my situation I would be extremely grateful. Wall Street is truly where I want to work in my live. Thank you for reading this.
bump
Fellow German here
Starting out on Wallstreet is incredibly hard as a European without a Visa. I am studying at an European Top Target and me and some friends (various top targets across Europe) have tried to leverage a standing offer for London after a summer stint at EB/BB, without success. There have been cases where it worked, i.e. they were offered another summer internship in NYC with subsequent fulltime offer. However, that a) takes another full year b) atleast 1 person i know of had to leave after his first year due to his Visa getting canceled, leaving the particular bank even less inclined to take on internationals without a visa.
Having said that, here is the well trodden path to Wall Street from Europe. Start at a BB/EB in an European office (if possible London), perform and push for a transfer after 2 years.
No offense, but just trying to be a bit realistic. Coming from a non-target, with mediocre GPA and no internships will be an uphill battle, but not impossible, especially in Germany. My advice would be to take a gap year, get some internships (might even be Audit to start out). Score a high GMAT and apply to an European target. Lots of hardwork ahead, but still achievable.
Edit: Going to a non-target school in the US seems like a complete waste of money!
Also, please never say that to anyone, it screams, I have no idea what the hell i'm talking about
"I see my future in finance and thats what i want to do for the next decades. I don't have problems working 60-90 hours, because i enjoy the subject so much, but i also want to earn a lot of money."
Thank you for your honest insight, fellow German :) I can see why attending a non-target school would be a waste of money. I'm also aware of my rather poor starting point considering my GPA, my school etc.
Given that i decide to take a gap year, do you think it is realistic to get internships at a BB/EB regarding my situation? Also when you're talking about applying to a european-target, would you recommend getting an MBA or a Master of Finance? I'm curious because I've read that in the US a MBA has more prestige and is the "classical" approach to getting into WallStreet. This might me different in Europe.
"Also, please never say that to anyone, it screams, I have no idea what the hell i'm talking about" - Yeah i was cringing as i wrote that aswell, haha
Hi RIBY30,
Another fellow German posting here.
As kobemann already pointed out, it is extremely rare for Europeans to get an investment banking job in NYC right out of university since the U.S. offices have their own recruiting procedures (much heavier emphasis on on-campus recruiting than in Europe, for example). Try to get a job in London first and transfer to the U.S. after two or three years there if you are still set on doing so then.
If I were you, I would do the following:
Work on your grades: A 2,0 or so (I assume a linear conversion of your stated GPA) is not exactly considered excellent in Germany.
Go to a good university for your finance master's: Investment banks care quite a lot about the institution(s) you attended and specialising in finance further demonstrates your interest in the field.
Get relevant internships: Typically, German students first go for Audit or, better, Transaction Advisory Services internships at one of the Big 4 or for internships at smaller boutique investment banks before applying to EB/BB firms.
Also, MBAs are usually for people with a few years of full-time work experience; you should instead be looking at finance master's programmes. To give you a small list of good European programmes to start with: LSE Finance or Finance & Private Equity, HEC two-year Grande École Master in Management or one-year Master in International Finance, Bocconi Finance, SSE Finance, HSG Banking and Finance. Staying in Germany for your master's (i.e., enrolling in Mannheim's MMM, for example) might also be sufficient for getting into EBs/BBs and feasible given your grades and academic background. Note that it probably makes sense to stay in Europe for your master's since such programmes are much less common in the U.S., therefore sometimes of lower quality and not as favourably looked upon by people in the industry; this might be different for master's programmes at excellent universities like Princeton and MIT (you have absolutely zero chance of getting into these).
I would once more like to reiterate kobemann's advice to not go to a non-target MBA programme in the U.S. under any circumstances. You would be much better off with basically any public university in Germany and save tons of money in the process.
I hope that helps. Viel Erfolg!
Hey Guiib, Wow, thank you for your answer. This really helps out a lot. I will definitely try to boost my GPA as high as possible now that I've woken up. The things you wrote about the American MBA's and Master programs make perfect sense. I'll focus on screening out target-universities for Finance degrees in Europe and forget about non-targets in the US completely. It would probably be best to do as many internships as possible while pursuing my finance degree in the UK. I have a few questions left though. Are there internships of equal value given that I get my Master's degree in Germany or France? Reading more and more about this I get a feeling that these internships are really important to step a foot in the door of the BB/EB banks. Also what do you think about kobemann's advice of taking a gap year? I could use my age advantage to use one year after getting my bachelor to get a really good GMAT and also collect some precious internships. This seems like a good opportunity to improve my chances of getting into a top-european university. Vielen Dank nochmal!
Do as Guiib laid out.
In Frankfurt a lot of Analysts are 24-26 when they start and even in London tons of Analysts have a Masters, so there is absolutely no worries about age.
Regarding internships, no at the moment BB/EB is not very likely, but that changes fast if you have 1-2 TAS, M&A Boutique etc. internships under your belt.
Also don't give up if it takes some effort in the beginning, the first one is hard for everyone. Just be proactive and apply to as many M&A boutiques as you can. Know your story and be well prepared
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