Houston Vs Dallas
Houston or DFW, which is better for banking
(job prospects for a recent graduate)
no preference whether working in energy industry or not, just looking to see which has more opps.
Investment banking in Texas: Houston Job Market vs Dallas Job Market
If you scan through the thread below you’ll see that Houston is by far the first Choice for banking. Why? Because Houston Texas is a global energy hub. There is a swathe of banks houston and every bulge bracket is represented.
Some notable players in energy banking:
- Barclays
- Credit suisse
- Simmons and Co
- Citi
- Goldman Sachs
- Morgan Stanley
- JP Morgan
- Jefferies
- Tudor Pickering and Holt
- Ever Core
Dallas is arguable better for asset management. There is conflicting information about which city has more buy side opportunities. 90% of the buy side opportunities will be energy focused.
Can't go wrong with either. Although I favor Houston because it's cheaper,has a helluva downtown, and great industry.. Moreso than Dallas
Houston has a helluva downtown?
next to dallas yes.
I seems like Dallas area has a larger number of boutiques and MM though, easier to break in for a recent grad?
Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but if you want to do banking in the energy sector, pick Houston; if not, then go with Dallas.
More opportunities with bigger shops in Houston. Dallas has opportunities, but they're small and pay/hours will reflect that. Exit ops would be more promising if you had Madoff on your resume.
Regarding the bar scene: Houston has a MUCH larger downtown/uptown/bar scene than Dallas. People know how to party in both towns, but as far as more action on your average night, sheer # of bars, and relatively speaking higher quality bars, you'd want Houston over Dallas any day. Both cities "feel" inherently different too, and if you've lived in either you know exactly what I'm talking about.
For banking, Houston is the winner by a considerable margin. For asset management, Dallas is the winner by a considerable margin.
Never in a million years did I think I would say this, but I like Dallas more than Houston. 1000x easier to get around town ("far" in Dallas = 20 minutes...that's damn near next door in Houston). The bar and singles scene in Dallas is concentrated in Uptown, tons of SMU+ recently graduated beautiful creatures. Once you're out, everything is walkable.
There are good places to go out in Houston but every time I'm there it seems like I have to get in the car to change bars. Also a lot more riff raff. Yes, Dallas has plenty of the infamous "30k dollar millionaires" but his presence is comical and a small price to pay for the eye candy that frequents just about any Uptown establishment.
The BB bank I work for doesn't even have IBD in Dallas... you could get a job in equities in dallas
Hostoun is a bigger city overall (by population) and
I (respectfully) disagree with merkin: private wealth may be more "visible" in Dallas to your friends, but even assuming you go the PWM route your exit ops are better in Houston. Just compare the sizes of the major PWM shops between the two cities (Goldman, Merrill, Morgan Stanley) - Houston's offices are at least 2x larger in every case.
Dallas has some boutique private wealth offices, but they're all crunched into tiny spaces in the Cresent or in one of the Galleria towers, whereas in Houston they're spread out between downtown, uptown. galleria, westheimer, post oak, river oaks, the beltway, and the woodlands.
Of course, the OP said "banking," and not requesting annual reports for grandma, so I don't think private wealth was on the menu in the first place.
@matt... I wasnt speaking of private wealth. I have no interest glorified annuity salesmen. I was speaking of the buy side fund community. With that clarification, I reiterate that Dallas is the clear leader in that arena.
There are more banks in Houston. However, I can count on one hand the number of people I know who actually like Houston, and I lived in Texas for 20 years. It's a sprawling, polluted, industrial city without any zoning laws. Dallas is much more pretentious but other than that is great and has the most attractive women of any city I've ever seen. The city of Houston is larger than Dallas, but the DFW metro area is the fourth largest in the country (NYC, LA, Chicago). Regarding asset management opportunities, assuming you're referring to hedge funds and private equity, there are a lot of hedge funds in Dallas, and private equity may lean slightly towards Houston.
Regarding downtown Dallas, nobody lives/goes there except clubwhores. Uptown is where everyone hangs out and everything there is walkable. I can't really speak for downtown Houston.
How hard is it to get a good banking/finance job in either of these cities from a non-Texas school? I've read they hire almost exclusively out of UT and a couple other Texas schools, but I would imagine a HYPW graduate could get in if they really wanted it and put the effort in. Am I wrong? I'm talking out of UG not MBA.
anyone can get in if they really want it. I seen from USC - Harard and everything in between
monty's right - if you want it, have the background, and can prove you're a fit, it doesn't matter what school you're from. Outside of UT I don't see any other Texas schools represented. You'll be fine.
@merkin - I agree, though I still don't think the OP meant "buy side" when he said "banking." If OP wanted buy side he should consider San Francisco, New York, and London.
rice
smu and texas am to a lesser extent
clarification for the sake of the OP: I agree those schools are well represented, but I don't think they drown out other schools quite like the UT grads do. Some workplaces just feel filled to the hilt with UT grad. It's like they can't survive without being around each other. There's always exceptions to the rule, so I'm clearly being very generic here.
So consensus from all my Texans that are working is than Houston is better( more opps) for breaking in out of college, whereas Dallas is better for laterals after your 2 yr analyst stint to the buyside.
Not to get off topic, but from the ppl working in TX, would you say above post is pretty accurate. Dallas does have a lot of smaller boutiques to break into though.
I dont mind whether its buyside or not
a lot of that is b/c UT has more kids than SMU And Rice combined
So consensus from all my Texans that are working is than Houston is better( more opps) for breaking in out of college, whereas Dallas is better for laterals after your 2 yr analyst stint to the buyside. (post im referencing to)
i dont think anyone said that... get a job where you can.. worry about rest later... I am not losing sleep if I can only get an offer in one or the other....
Depends on what you want to do on the buyside. Hedge funds go to Dallas. Energy private equity probably Houston outside of NGP. There are some smaller generalist PE firms in Dallas like Brazos, HM Capital, etc.
Lonestar also in Dallas for P/E.
But yes, as I said, for banking, Houston wins. That's just where they are.
As for schools (undergrad), obviously Rice is dominant from a broad academic standpoint, but you don't see many of them in the business community (unless MBA). Rice kids tend to be..umm...weird. Picture your high school band. Or an Apple store employee. Certainly a great school though.
UT is dominant due to size and great accounting/finance program. Plan II carries weight as well.
Texas A&M has a cultish network which can be a tremendous advantage. More than any other school, Aggies hire Aggies.
SMU/TCU both place well in their respective cities. Oddly enough, TCU undergrad finance kids tend to do quite well in the job realm, but their MBA program is completely mediocre.
Houston does not have a downtown. It has a collection of tall buildings, and becomes completely empty after 6pm. The only people left after dark are homeless people, and I'm really surprised those people are there. I'm not exactly sure where they get food etc... b/c literally no-one lives downtown. There's like three apartment buildings in the whole joint.
The most action Houston downtown has is around the Theaters, and that's on like Friday/Sat night. Else, that place is massively depressing. Once the underground closes there are not grocery stores, barely any restaurants in the downtown area. You need to like drive for 10 minutes to get to a decent grocery store out of downtown.
I think LA may even be better planned than Houston. I've never been Dallas, but if it's worse than Houston then there must be tumbleweeds and abandoned buildings all over the place.
Supposedly midtown in Houston is decent, but it can't be that great.
The only good thing about Houston is that if you drive about 40 minutes south you get to a place called Kemah, and you can see Beyonce's house...lol
Ladies and gentleman, the expert on Houston and Dallas has arrived.
Given that I have family there I would think I know Houston. Also, spent a few months there. As for the OP's question Houston is Energy IBD/Trading ( mostly power, physical gas ). For IBD it's power/oil/gas. Dallas is Hedge Funds and Real Estate ( GS Archon, PE firms for Real Estate - TPG & Hospitality Consulting ).
Houston: CS (IBD), JP ( IBD & S&T ), UBS (IBD), GS(IBD), C(S&T), BarCap(IBD), Simmons
Merkin? Did I add enough color now..................
Dallas vs Houston (Originally Posted: 06/12/2012)
At some point in the next week I have to declare a first choice for location for a resume book. Think Big 4 where the job itself isn't going to be specific to a city. My grad program is in Texas and I'm planning on staying there after graduation, so these were the two obvious options. I haven't actually been to either of these cities with the exception of driving through Dallas during rush hour, so I'm once again turning to WSO for advice. Here are some of the issues I'm dealing with:
I'm not fully sure what I want to do after leaving B4. I would like to break into O&G in a FP&A, Treasury, or ER type role, which would be a clear advantage to Houston. Or I may also pursue HF/PE accounting roles, which to the best of my limited understanding is an advantage to Dallas. Personal history suggests I'll take the less ambitious road, which would be accounting. Can someone confirm/deny for me that Dallas would be stronger for this?
I'm originally from the midwest, and never seeing snow again would be awesome. Advantage Houston, right?
I despise the Dallas Cowgirls and their fans. Advantage Houston.
I also dislike public transportation. Which city is more car friendly?
Finally, I'm a social recluse so clubs and bars don't mean much to me. If either city has an off-beat social scene that could drag me into the sun and the vicinity of females, it'd probably be healthy for me. Anything like that in either city?
Thanks Texas monkeys.
Houston has some of the worst traffic in Texas, it's known for that. If you want to be in energy, it's Houston hands down. Accounting roles could probably be found easily in either city.
I'd recommend first deciding what your focus is, if you want to be an energy analyst or a hf accountant, etc. Secondly, I would visit both cities, and see which one you like more.
What do you mean by 'off beat social scene'?
This isn't a set in stone kind of thing, and I hope to visit both cities by the end of the year, but I need to start thinking about it. I was kind of particular about HF/PE accounting because the compensation in those jobs seems to blow F500 accounting out of the water. Do those industries exist in Houston?
Traffic in Houston is only bad if you live way out in the suburbs and make the long commute into downtown. However, it is not nearly as bad as LA or DC. Since it sounds like you are a single guy, you will probably be living somewhere on the Westheimer corridor between downtown and the galleria and memorial drive / Allen Parkway make it really easy to get into downtown with minimal traffic headaches. Houston has an absolute joke of a light rail that nobody rides or cares about, so it's virtually mass-transit free.
Both cities have excellent social scenes for twentysomething professionals. However, if you are looking for a younger crowd of females Dallas has a bit of an advantage with all the SMU and TCU chicks. One thing that is wierd about Houston is that while there are a huge number of amazing bars and ice houses, there is not once concentrated strip like in Austin on 6th Street or Dallas on East Greenville.
The Rice Village social scene is a little more bohemian (not sure if that qualifies as 'off beat') but also a younger crowd.
Hope that helps......
interning in houston right now. traffic is ridiculous.
Traffic sucks in both, public transportation is non-existent.
Definitely target Houston if interested in energy.
Also, keep in mind Houston is near the ocean, if you're into that kind of thing. Dallas is like one big inland strip mall.
By the way, both cities have absolutely unreal strip clubs.... Just sayin.....
I wouldn't say that Dallas has any advantage when it comes to PE/HF, so I would still lean towards Houston for those even though it will most likely be an energy-focused shop. Dallas is more focused on Asset Management than anything. As far as accounting goes, you will have about the same amount of opportunities in either city. The only social scene that either city has that might separate one from the other is Dallas has a ton of lakes and party coves, which you might consider "off-beat". Aside from that, they both have a ton of bars, live music, and other stuff that is the same. The girls in Dallas are much more attractive overall, but they are also much more pretentious even though Dallas is comprised of a ton of $30,000 millionaires. My pick would be Houston for work and the people. It's definitely not as nice as Dallas in most parts, but for work it's much better.
Lol at $30k millionaires, so true. Dallas douchebags are all over Uptown.
I thought Dallas north was the rich area with nice shit or is that like how meatpacking attracts the scum of the earth from the outer boroughs as admin assistant girls
Dallas definitely bigger HF scene, and more diversified from an industry perspective, but obviously Houston dominates energy.
If you live in town I never found traffic to be too bad in either city. Traffic is terrible, don't get me wrong, but if you live in a reasonable place it is not too much of an issue.
Dallas has more "condensed' social scene. I.E. Several pockets of bars (Uptown, Greenville, etc) whereas Houston can be a bit more scattered. I guess washington ave and midtown are similar in houston but overall your evening will probably involve at least one cab ride between dinner and drinks. Though sounds like your taste might be a tad unique...
Don't worry about public transportation. We don't believe in such things.
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