IB's trading ranking?

This is a fucking joke, right?

Of course my understanding could be very naive... Thank you!

For IB:

GS MS JPM CS DB UBS Barclays Citi

~Semper Fi Bankerfuckers~

lol does BofA/ML not exist? And how on earth is UBS above ANYONE?

Lists are for undergrads.

Trading is different for every product.

so let's make a even more detailed list.

What's the list for flow trading w.r.t each broad asset category?

What's the list for prop trading?

Btw, we are talking about the post-crisis landscape. So where should BoA/ML be seated?

A quick check shows that league tables for underwriting include JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Citi, and BOA-ML. For M&A, its MS, GS, JPM, BOA-ML again, along with Citi and some other banks. DB, CS, UBS, Barclays are all near the top. Obviously there are only 9 true BB's left, with Lazard competing on the IB side but not sales/trading side.

For BOA-ML specifically, it is ranked top 2 or 3 in most underwriting categories and top 5 in some based on league tables/Bloomberg. Its sales/trading platform is in the top 5-6 (flow only, though there is a small prop desk) and its research is one of the top 2 or 3.

Its problems now are on the consumer banking side (ie people not paying their cards/mortgages like they are supposed to)

BarCap is in the same tiers as BOA-ML across the board, but not needing government money is a plus.

And of course, these rankings are pointless because it really depends on how good your MD/Senior is, which is what gets you cred. Its not like college where a rank encompasses anything useful. .

it's currently like:

GS MSPDT CS BoA(ML) ???

But those firms claimed to have shut down prop-trading desks they ought to take some positions in their flow trading business somewhere. That's to say, there is no way to completely shut down prop-trading activities.

Am I right?

Even if firms don't explicitly have a prop trading desk, their flow trading desks do build their own positions - I think firms have gotten way more liberal with this in the past few years just from my perspective.

lets make a list of the saddest pple here.

1. OP
2. That kid in the office with aldo shoes and express button downs
3. everyone else who posts in this thread arguing about these rankings.

Well for the IB side, a lot of people DO argue about league tables who are actually in the industry. Like, MDs and important people, so its not unusual to see college students discussing these same things. But ranking trading/sales/research platforms is a bit more pointless. For research you can use II rankings, and for trading and sales overall division revenues.

The best measure is always how much money you make haha, though I guess it takes a while before you get to that level

From what we are interested in, we could check which companies cultivate star traders:

Here is a list for 2005:

http://news.waters.efinancialcareers.com/ITEM_FR/newsItemId-6121

It looks like UBS paid well...

The Top-Earning Traders Of 2005 Mar 30 2006

Trader Monthly's list of the highest earning Wall Street traders is led by Goldman Sachs Managing Director Mark McGoldrick, 48. Co-head of global proprietary investments at Goldman, he earned an estimated $40 million to $50 million last year, the magazine said.

The other top traders:

Earning $30 million - $40 million

Raanan Agus - Goldman Sachs Ken Karl - UBS Boaz Weinstein - Deutsche Bank

Earning $20 million - $25 million

Simon Greenshields - Morgan Stanley Jonathan Hoffman - Lehman Brothers (Miami) Michael Hutchins - UBS Rajeev Misra - Deutsche Bank (London) Arvind Raghunathan - Deutsche Bank Olav Refvik - Morgan Stanley John Shapiro - Morgan Stanley Ashok Varadhan - Goldman Sachs Barry Witlin - Merrill Lynch Jon Wood - UBS (London)

Earning $15 million - $20 million

John Bertuzzi - Goldman Sachs George 'Beau' Taylor - JPMorgan

Dude, 2005 may as well have been 1945 as far as this shit is concerned. Amazing!

My screen name is a misspelled version of a guy on this list- I think the next year he topped the Trader Monthly list...

RIP Trader Monthly- now how do we know who the 30 under 30 are? and the highest earners in NY/London?

was a total joke. several years back there was a guy from a shitty prop shop that scalped lucent on there.

Why is trading weather derivatives any better than scalping lucent than swing trading Ten Year futures or making markets in OTC Interest rate options? Money is money.

Tomnext I see you work in S&T and were born in 1982 so im curious if you have your own book and are taking risk? PM me if your uncomfortable sharing on the thread.

Tim Sykes was the worst on the 30 under 30 hence why they kicked him out of the party.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

...trading is not about rankings, its just about the seat. You want to work someplace that gives you plenty of capital, a wide mandate, and isnt on your back all the time about risk. Good systems also. Whether the name on the door says "Goldman Sachs" or "XYZ Trading Co" is meaningless. And I know, having worked at very prestiguous places and places that were less well-known. This type of shitt, making lists and the like, is for pathetic investment bankers who are only in the business because they want to impress their friends.

And that 2006 list posted above is only sell-side traders...I beieve in '06 Steve Cohen made over a billion dollars personally.

dude your one of a handful of legit traders on this forum that even contributes.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.

trade where ever you are given a chance to prove yourself. the name on the door will not help much once you start working

These rankings are pretty ridiculous. You can't rank firms, only desks.

But to show how ridiculous these rankings are, you just have to note that UBS has absolutely decimated their sales and trading groups. MS fired all of their top execs from FI, and has had horrible trading profits compared to CS, DB, and Barclays.