JP Morgan Officially about to Cancel Summer Internships and Freeze Hiring
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Heard this was for UK positions, not confirmed.
Dont think so, yet...
Was anything mentioned about FT offers that have already been made?
This is just for context for all of the WSO community who are about to comment on this thread. A friend of mine who did IBD during the 2008 GFC:
I hope you're well. You remembered correctly - I was laid-off from Merrill Lynch (along with 95% of my fellow analysts) subsequent to the merger with Bank of America. I was out of work for 10 months as the fallout from the Financial Crisis settled.
To say it required an adjustment is a great understatement. I was technically living with my parents the entire time, though I had a girlfriend who lived on Wall Street, and I spent nearly all my waking hours at the office. Truly living with my parents was a bit of a different story (nothing bad, it's just that they'll always be your parents, and they'll act accordingly). Also, due to the stress and the late nights associated with the job, I had gained a substantial amount of weight. My first priority was to get my health in order. I would go to the gym first thing every morning, so that I would start each day energized and with a feeling of accomplishment. It's something over which I had near-total control, and I began to see results rapidly. I think that ultimately had the greatest positive effect on my outlook. I'd suggest you do the same, if you're not already doing so. Health is truly the foundation for everything.
I've recently started meditating for 15 minutes every day using the Headspace app. My mind tends to be all over the place, and I often have difficulty focusing. I've noticed a definite improvement in my concentration, and my anxiety levels have declined substantially. Check it out.
I guess this next part is the hardest to accept, and I don't mean to sound patronizing: shit happens. If I've learned anything in my 33 years, it's that I can't predict the future, but I can do my best to prepare for it. When the unexpected or undesirable occurs, I just accept it, and look for ways to move forward. There are often opportunities to be found. For instance, I hated my job at Barclays, but it provided a good living. I just never felt fulfilled. Ironically, the long, shitty hours I put in ended up contributing a broken engagement with my first fiancee. This freed me to meet my current fiancee, who is from Norway. She gave me the courage to resign from Barclays last May, and I moved to Norway shortly thereafter. I'm currently bartending, since I'm learning the language, and I think it's a good way to do so. I don't know what the future holds for me from a professional standpoint, but I'm excited to see what's in store.
I'd say to take this time to focus on yourself. It can actually be a positive experience. You have an awesome resume, and the right people in finance will notice.
Excuse these groggy ramblings - I just woke up.
Let me know if you need anything at all. Skyping might be beneficial. I find it's always more of a release to actually speak with someone.
Best, Fox
P.S. - Check out "The Path" by Michael Puett and "Hannibal and Me" by Andreas Kluth.
One of the most candid and honest answer on this forum, thanks Pussy galore
You get SB'ed just for saying "Health is truly the foundation for everything." #Truth
‘When health is absent, wisdom cannot reveal itself, art cannot manifest, strength cannot fight, wealth becomes useless, and intelligence cannot be applied.’
-Herophilus
Bartending sounds fun
I feel like this is one of those situations where every bank is just looking at other banks to see what they're doing. If a major bank trims the SA class, I feel like the rest would promptly follow.
What's going on is unprecedented and everything is speculation at this point. Banks don't even know what to do with their current employees, let alone with their incoming summer analysts.
Hopefully nothing major happens and it's just a matter of minor adjustments. Governor Cuomo said that he expects the peak of the virus to happen in 45 days time in NYC, so maybe it's just a matter of delaying start dates. Very tricky situation for HR for sure.
"At this time, please rest assured that nothing has changed in terms of our plan to on-board you as a JPMC employee in 2020 and we have substantial safety precautions in place for all new hires, which are identical to those in place for all employees. Analyst / Associate Programs are critically important for our firm. Even if we do need to make adjustments to our programming at a later time, we still intend to honor our commitment to you by designing new ways for you to demonstrate your talent and engage with our firm, whether that means adjusting our schedule or taking advantage of technology to connect in a new way." -- I received this a few days ago as incoming FT analyst, pretty sure SA got similar email notice.
Thanks for sharing. Going to a well-known boutique and hoping they have a similar sentiment. Haven’t heard anything yet though and not sure if I should sit tight or consider reaching out in a few weeks time. If anyone has any advice I’m all ears
Nobody is discussing issues for Incoming Analysts, the banks require incomings as there will be typical turnover in the banks and they need the fresh talent (that they had just spent millions on the past summer or even summers in some cases) to come in and replace them- also not for nothing but theres discussions of 2008 but that was when there was a FINANCIAL crisis and banks legit were about to go bankrupt/did go bankrupt or were bought outright to prevent that. JPM as we all know was one of the best performing banks during the crisis and now currently has a ridiculous amount of liquidity and zero threat of going bankrupt- unless of course this continues for years or something along those lines
I understand where you are coming from- but I am pretty sure SA got similar comforting email even days before us. Maybe SA can help confirm here.
At this point there are so many rumors, I want to see a either a screenshot of an email or a direct quote from someone at JP, because writing things like this will only instill panic on this isite
False information. There is no such decision at this point. However, no new intern offers will be given for the 2020 London summer internship.
Yeah if this is false info or you’re not 100% positive/just heard a rumor it might be beneficial for everyone’s sanity not to post. This does absolutely nothing for anyone except for cause extreme panic. This is already a hard enough time as is and I know we are all in a tough spot. Doing anything to mitigate further anxiety for everyone is a responsibility we should all take on.
It is unlikely to rescind SA offers Back in 2008 banks just give an extremely low return rate and let these kids to earn the last pocket money they can earn
Banks do not need graduates to fill the the turnover in banking. Such environment will have very low voluntary turnover and banks will be very happy having natural attrition
Do you think EBs with a good RX platform will be at less risk and have more full time spots?
Just to lessen the number of people freaking out, realize that this is an entirely anonymous post.
I could write the same thing about any other firm right now and that'd carry the same amount of validity, whether I'm working there or not.
As a hopefully still incoming SA at JP, I can confirm that about a week ago I received an email assuring us that worst case scenario they'd move us online. Maybe this'll affect the return offer but in the US at least they're not canceling.
This is false. You / your friend are misinformed. No plans for that yet and everything is still super fluid. WFH mandate could end as abruptly as it began, almost nobody is thinking ahead to July. The response to COVID is 2 weeks out for most of the OC
mark
JPM TO $40 WHEN?
False.
You guys are all going to be fine in the long run.
The problem is that these things are still a moving target. We need about a week or two of fairly accurate testing and modeling, and then a couple days for the NIH and CDC to get their projections to the public and businesses. And then we'll see where this is going.
But yes, there's about a 50/50 chance that summer is going to be on hold. Maybe it's a little bit less likely than that. Hard to say. I'm a quant-- I can understand a basic SIR model, but I am not an epidemiologist
One thing that you guys can do is start coming up with backup plans right now. For instance, this would not be a terrible year to start thinking about a Master's program, lining up references, and taking the GREs or GMATs.
Stay in front of your firms and your hiring managers, if you have them. Keep that relationship going. But... you need a backup plan for what you are going to do after graduation. If you've been thinking about getting that MS or PhD, being stuck at home isn't a bad time to start studying for the GREs or GMATs. That is one productive thing that you guys can do-- or the CFA.
any thoughts about seniors with FT offers already signed?
Bump this. Incoming FT looking for some clarity
My guess is that the firms are mostly going to be good for the FT offers. Back in '07, that was mostly the case.
There might be some delays in your start date.
The problem with the summer internship is that it's really gotta be in person, and at the end of the summer, it's over. We can't just move it.
The FT guys with offers are a little bit safer, but your start date might change.
As you probably know, they are going to put everyone into a big room for analyst training-- probably contracting out a lot of the financial and accounting training to NYU or Columbia professors-- and this will go on for four to six weeks. Obviously there are a number of issues with doing that during the Wuhan Coronavirus. So the *easiest * outcome here is to delay the start date.
However, if something does get figured out for the summer interns, maybe they will also apply that idea to the FT hires as well.
What the hell are any interns going to do online? They would essentially be even more useless
Probably nothing, but banks still need to preserve the pipeline of new analysts to fill turnover. Plus it helps them retain relationships with schools. I would argue that even if the interns are working online and essentially useless, it’s still in the banks’ best interest to keep their summer analyst programs running (unless they are severely financially stressed)
Fair point sounds like a perfect time to get paid to do absolutely nothing. Will be interesting to see how to play the be present but not too present and annoying
What I think is going to happen is the analyst program head is going to call up different MDs within the bank to try to figure out ideas for how to handle this. Then, they are going to call up their counterparts at other firms.
If there is a good answer for how to handle summer internships, they will figure it out. But if nobody is coming into work, and nothing is getting done, it is going to be tricky. If the virus is still ongoing, I just don't see hundreds of interns coming onto the fixed income trading floor at JPM, and sitting four feet away from traders over eight weeks of the summer. That just isn't in the cards.
But IF a solution exists, there will be a better idea/solution than any one WSO member can come up with-- some MD with a bunch of experience-- an actually good manager (not all of the MDs are good managers)-- will come up with an idea that works for his/her team, and it will eventually spread throughout the firm and eventually the Street. And then there will be a few other ideas that build/improve on it.
Give it a month; we'll see what the MDs and HR come up with. The one reassuring thing is that Wall Street is going to throw a lot more collective managerial wisdom at this than a forum full of college students and the occasional VP-level QR, and if there is a solution, they will find it.
But as a mid-level rank-and-file guy, I can't figure out a good solution on my own for S&T or QR.
totally agree. How are the analysts/assocs/VPs going to chuck mark ups and changes to the excel model over the phone at 10pm?
it'll take a week for the interns to get settled in and get their laptops/VPNs, all to just do crap work for the analysts to mark up and reformat again.
I'll rather do the stuff myself.
Yes, but HR and the MDs aren't going to throw in the towel as easily as us rank-and-file guys would. There is a good point that these programs source in some good talent, and do it cheaply. And the HR people are going to hound the managers to figure out a solution if it is possible.
HR and campus recruiting wants to stay relevant and protect THEIR jobs. So there are people out there who have an interest in having the show go on, if possible, and they are going to be hounding the MDs for ideas.
Can't put odds on this one yet. n=5, but I can't figure out a solution on my own, and the collective wisdom of this thread can't figure out a good solution. But I think we have to have the humility to say that there are smarter people on Wall Street than us, and if a good solution exists, it will get found. Otherwise, home is the best place for the summer interns to be staying.
Meantime, everyone should be studying for the GREs and GMATs and lining up grad school references. You guys need a plan B.
Guys I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but it is highly unlikely there are any significant amount of remote interns. If we are in a situation where in June/July we are still working from home that will mean MASSIVE layoffs for the entire industry.
At least in 08/09 there were still things getting done (even if at 50% levels vs. the prior year). Right now, we are operating in an environment at probably 10% levels (honestly may even be close to 0%). Until there is more certainty, no one is doing deals right now, there is very little liquidity in the market, PE firms are using their dry powder to keep current investments afloat rather than writing new checks, etc. I think you can all do the math on what that means for IB revenues.
At this point the best thing every citizen can do is hunker down and stop the spread of this. This economy shutdown is essentially unprecedented so no one knows what this means for future. 2 months will be extremely harmful, 4 months (e.g. when internships start) will almost be catastrophic. Ideally in two weeks our curve starts to look more like S. Korea, testing is massively widescale, and some semblance of confidence is restored so thatthe run on the markets and on liquidity is stopped. Until then, take care of yourself - I'm afraid there are zero answers for any of us in the industry or trying to get in at this moment.
Honestly tho I don't think we can take the same measurements as in South Korea, things are very different in Europe. I think right now at the moment we're pretty damn fucked. At least in my IB new internship interviews are getting cancelled plus FT signings getting cancelled at the very last moment. And I'm in DCM. I believe if you know enough about IBD you know what it means to see this kinda thing happening even in DCM...
Do you see your IB rescinding offers for FT analysts who have already signed?
In 08/09, the analyst hires were pretty safe. There is one crucial fact protecting the analysts: they're cheap.
Now, things have changed. Today, the curve has greatly flattened. I'm not going to say what the multiple was in '07 for how much a QR with 5-10 years of experience made vs a first year on the sellside, but that overall ratio has probably gotten cut in half.
But what protects the analyst hires is that they're cheap.
It's been my dream to end up in IB, I hustled from freshman year to build my profile in order to get a SA gig. And I worked hard to get a fucking FT offer, FML if they truly rescind my FT offer. All my work would be in vain.
No one cares about you.
On the other hand, I don't think you've got as much control over your life as you think you do. Everyone has that moment in their life.
For me, it happened in freshman year of high school when I dropped out of honors math because I was getting a C. On the one hand, my grade is always under my control, but on the other hand the teacher sucked at teaching. I dropped down to college prep and got an A, and realized that not everything in life is under my control. It was a humbling moment for me. The good news is that I bounced back, studied Computer Science at the best school in the country-- UIUC, got a job at Lehman in 07-- got hurt by that one, graduated from a lower-ranked school for financial engineering, landed at a large hedge fund as an alpha dev (something like Bridgewater or WorldQuant), and kept bouncing back despite what life threw at me.
If you go to a school that places people into investment banking and you get an investment banking offer, and you're 20, you're probably pretty confident that life is under your control. But that is a total illusion, as the Coronavirus illustrates.
People go around telling themselves that they're in control; they go around telling others that they are in control. They're not. It's an illusion, if not a lie.
The reality is that life throws curve balls at you. And you can't always control them or handle them. But... how do you respond over the long term? Do you accept that sometimes life is out of your control? Do you have the humility to make backup plans? Are you willing to be transparent about your own weaknesses? Often, that honesty creates a lot of value. At the very least, it puts you in a more stable world over the long run.
Here is the reality-- you ARE in control, but only over the long run.
Life throws curve balls at you. Sometimes you can handle them; sometimes you can't. Life will throw a market crisis at you. Life will throw a personal crisis at you. Life will throw a sociopathic boss at you. These things happen, and sometimes things are beyond your control.
Somehow, you have to learn the ability to laugh at yourself; laugh at the crazy fucked-up situation, and figure out a way to bounce back with grace and a smile. The one thing that you really control is your character, and your work ethic. You don't even control your reputation-- you can lose that one too. But you control who you are, how YOU respond to crises, and how you bounce back from bad situations.
That's the advice a 34 year old who dealt with Lehman a year out of school would give to a 21-year-old dealing with the Coronavirus.
I work at a large asset manager, and manage the analysts and interns on my team. As of today, we still plan on having everyone start. My wife works at a HF and had someone on her team literally start on Monday via Zoom.
Things are going to get tough, but as long as we do not see a massive deterioration, I don't think there are plans to change too much.
My EB recently notified summer analysts that the internship would continue -- remotely if need be.
Which EB if you don't mind me asking?
yes ^ what bank and where are u supposed to be located?
2 of my close friends are incoming SA at JPM in NYC and this is blatantly false. They have reassured everyone will have an internship, albeit it is fluid in terms of whether it will be remote or not.
Stop spreading misinformation, dick.
AndyLouis Can you go ahead and ban whatever account created this thread in a week if JP doesn't cancel their SA program by then? Or post their IP address or something.
pls do
Hi everyone.
If the Coronavirus pandemic gets bad enough to cancel summer internships, I am potentially looking for a part-time technologist to contract on a web development project with me that is related to quantitative finance. In some ways, college juniors looking for something productive to do with their time at home might be ideal.
If this takes off, there will be some significant buyside and sellside exposure, and it will help create opportunities for a lot of other WSO users, especially in this cohort. However, it also goes without saying that I can compensate you for this.
The best time to found a startup is during a recession, and in some ways this idea benefits from users having a lot of time to spend at home, so that helps us. But there is a lot more to overcome. For instance, we're going to need a really terrific COO-- a guy who can get stuff done and stay really organized. I'm good at generating ideas, solving problems. And I can't afford to pay him what he's worth in cash. And if this does get going, I'm going to need to tug on my network to line up some VC funding. Hopefully that window stays open for good ideas from people with industry experience. But we're getting way way way ahead of ourselves.
Let's just see if we can get a website and serviceable proof-of-concept up
Interested people with web development skills should send me a PM with information about their background, and I promise to carefully review every PM I get.
Let's hope for the best, but prepare for the worst if TSHTF.
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