Starting this thread to hold banks w low return offer rates or banks that laid off workers accountable and public for future reference
Feel free to include which divisions had layoffs, or what return rates were for interns
Comment banks below
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HL, Jefferies for sure
I love the energy, but honestly this will do 0 to hold any bank accountable.
Literally 0 people will be like "oh no, goldman did this... let me avoid goldman"
But still, love to see it so keep up the good work.
True, but Goldman will probably not lay anyone off soon. On the other hand, people will know to avoid banks like Jefferies for next recruiting season
Same with DB
If anything you should go for these banks as over the next years they will have higher headcount than firms that have taken no action this year and that will cut headcount/have low conversion rates next year. All firms will need to trim some fat one way or another in a recession. Some firms just do it sooner than others.
I mean it would at least be something I considered.
If next year I have offers that are more or less the same, I'd probably take offer rate as a deciding factor.
Nomura: Anectodally would say it's anywhere from 30-50% depending on the group DB: Slaughter RBC: Some groups were 50% others were higher than in previous years HL: C&R NY apparently had 0% but yeah slaughter as well
DB was around 70% for associates, I wouldn't call that a slaughter.
It was indeed a slaughter at DB. Way lower that 70%
RBC 85%+ for at least five banking groups I can personally confirm
This is just blatantly wrong.
How was HL RX?
HL RX has always been effectively 100% conversion and this year wasn't different -- can't blame them either, considering the hot rx market. Another example of how M&A and Rx at houlihan might as well be two different companies -- even the seamless budgets for the two teams are different.
Can anyone comment on the Nomura figures? Seems pretty much a slaughter as well
NA
NA
Have a friend who got promoted to Associate a couple months ago at DB, and no lay-off across her team. None at all.
Confused about all these C&R had 0 offers. Yeah, it sucks. Do people not realize that NY M&A take 20 interns a summer? C&R has 1-2 interns.
Personally know 1 associate at DB. Her whole group remains contact. No one got laid off.
CS was around 60ish%
they're still interning...
Yeah he's probably trolling because they're still interning and historically CS is like 90%
I think he meant for S&T, IB is still interning
Not to disagree (dont work at CS) but historical return rates don’t mean shit for this year
BMO: Some IB groups were 50%, trading got hit hard - around 15%
On the ib side, I know one group was 80% and another was 100%
I have only heard about one group, but I can confirm they were also 80%. Not sure how hard IB interns were actually hit
Baird had a layoff. Mostly associates and VPs.
I believe that 90%+ of analyst and associate interns received offers, that being said.
HSBC & Wells
What was Well's return offer rate?
Very curious about their s&t offers
70%
..................................................................
That's what I thought too, I don't know why WF was listed here.
following
I know WF Houston had significantly lower returns than avg. like ~70% for analysts and 50% for associates. Usually like 90+%
Bump
"Accountable" WTF are you talking about? These banks don't owe anyone anything, no one is entitled to a job. We are in an economic downturn, there will obviously be less hiring and potential layoffs. Why is this still surprising to everyone.
we get it, you like to lick boots- also nobody in the actual thread said anything about "keeping them accountable" aside from OP it's moreso just so people can share information about which banks shit the bed
Yes, OP said accountable which is why my reply was in direct response to his post and not any specific comment. Kinda curious what you mean by "shit the bed", if there is less work to be done then obviously there will be less need for additional headcount meaning a lower FT offer rate. I will caveat this by saying any firm that was disingenuous with interns and employees making it seem as though everything was fine and offers would be going out as usual but then went back on their word are obviously shit heads. No boot licking here, at the end of the day I understand that it's just business.
I think sharing information on what banks navigated this well vs those who didn’t is good/fine, and also to discuss who seems to be handling things well now. So I don’t want to sidetrack from this too much, but I think it is also helpful to understand why some of these numbers are what they are (put yourself in the shoes of management at these places). And keep in mind that those who are ok today won’t necessarily be the places that are ok tomorrow, this was quite a shock to the financial system.
In most of these situations it wasn’t “let’s screw over the interns”, but rather a shock related to covid that disrupted many parts of the industry and has continued to play out in a way that has been hard to plan for.
What I’m saying is:
1) when covid hit banks were impacted, some more than others. Some knew right away that this would be bad for them, others needed to see how it would play out 2) with that, banks had options: cancel the internship (sucks for the candidate, no experience on resume, potentially no pay) or try to do best efforts to keep the recruiting pipes open, with the chance that offers might be low due to demand and the financial situation - there was (and continues to be) an unknown of the impact to the firms 3) Firms that were hit hard and continued to struggle (due to either poor management or just a bit of bad luck around their specialization and revenue makeup), needed to cut costs 4) imagine being someone inside the firm, management is going to protect their valuable employees and those with experience/training while still trying to bring in top talent (in a reasonable way). They are just making business decisions here.
I’m not saying it doesn’t suck for interns, but just put yourself in the shoes of management at these firms. Reputation risk at top colleges is definitely a concern, but so is employee retention, and reputation risk if you hire people just to fire them before they even start (or right after starting).
I personally think it was better for these places to give the experience (I.e. not cancel the internship) and try to bring back the top performers than anything else. It isn’t an easy decision.
Final thought, don’t get me wrong, I’m sure places handled this poorly (bad communication and expectation setting, poorly managing the crisis and being further in financial trouble), but the internship is a relatively smaller concern for these groups when dealing with such a large issue to the financial markets as we are now.
How’s JPM NY IBD
lower than ms/baml/barclays/citi
care to elaborate? Id like to know more about how the top 3 banks played out during this time period
I heard industrials nyc and energy houston were hit pretty hard.
Its good to have these posts. Not for holding management accountable or any of those reasons. These are businesses at the end of the day, and they need to make decisions that can keep them afloat. However, there is a ridiculous amount of speculation on this site regarding which banks are the best to be at, comparisons among them, and a big part of this is how they perform in downturns.
A good example of why this is useful is that Ive seen countless threads over the past 15 months or so that have gotten VERY warm to the idea of Jefferies being a great place to be at with some going as far as saying its better than some mid BB or lower BBs... I knew from the beginning that this was ridiculous but to my surprise very few people were pushing back on this newfound respect for a firm that used to be a complete joke on this forum only a few years back. Well.. here we are now, the firm slaughtered its employees and treats them like shit, just like what I used to read many years back when I was recruiting, and here it is again. Seems like people have short memories..
Everyone take this as a warning that MM banks are extremely risky as they fight for scraps and also this idea of "RX business will buffer the firm" is utterly unfounded as these firms are the first to scrap employees or push start dates (you guys remember when Evercore decided to push delayed offers till next year by bribing guys with like 10k?) and now HL is blowing up its M&A. The RX guys will be fine but its not a buffer of any sort unless you are actually on those teams.
Be very careful where you decide to accept an offer for it can have vast implications.
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