Comments (65)

Aug 18, 2009

An analyst stint is tough, long hours and tedious work. I know a few analysts in their lower 30's but it is more taxing on them- if you have a family, you will not see them.

If you have an advanced degree, you should go in as an associate.

Aug 18, 2009

graduated from a top school with a bacherlors in engineering, did a co-op for about a year. went back to to school and did a masters in engineering. interned at my old firm and then after the MSc was complete, he started in banking full time. he stayed for 3 years and started as an associate at MM PE associate last year. He's ~30ish

I'm making it up as I go along.

I'm making it up as I go along.

Aug 18, 2009

I think, generally speaking, the analyst cutoff is around 29-30. I've seen analysts as old as 28 come on as first years, but they had a military, which accounted for their delayed entry into banking. Are there exceptions to every rule, sure, but in general, I think analysts starting their first year would usually fall in the under 30 category.

As far as getting along, that is on a case by case basis. People at 30 can get along with a 24 year old quite easily, just as a 24 year old can not get along with anyone around his/her age. It all depends on personality and interests, not age. There are numerous analysts who are married or are in serious relationships, so if one of your side questions was regarding a family, I don't think that issue is by any means unique to analysts older than 28 since I know analysts 25 in serious relationships, engaged or married, and I know associates in their 30s who are single - again, just as is always the case with fit - it's about interests and personality.

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Aug 18, 2009

Is it possible to apply for associate position after studying for an advanced degree, e.g. PhD, JD, MD. Also, how will recruiters view such applicants having done one year of non-IB work after graduating, e.g. one year as a trainee lawyer, before applying for FT in IBD? Will such applicants be better off NOT working and taking a year out to concentrate on applying for IB FT?

I'm almost 26, and was wondering if there are many analysts who start out at that age?

Aug 19, 2009

had a couple of analysts in their mid 20s coming from a big4 rotation in my group (and the ex military as mentioned above). My guess is these non-recent grads were stuck into analyst roles because they didn't have graduate degrees, nor did they have prev. banking exp.

Aug 19, 2009

You never said how old you were....

Aug 19, 2009

I'm in my mid-20s. Basically around the same age as a 2nd or 3rd year analyst.

Aug 19, 2009

Beta? This is alphaville bro. what about an mba?

Aug 19, 2009

Mid 20s is fine for analyst. If you can't lateral, consider an MBA and joining IB as a post mba associate

Aug 19, 2009

Re: the above - you most likely wouldn't be considered for the graduate analyst programs due to experience but there is no reason you couldn't lateral to ib as an analyst

Aug 19, 2009

I know a number of people who started in their mid-20s as analysts in IB. Whether you start as a 1st or 2nd year depends on relevant experience but regardless it's definitely doable.

Aug 19, 2009

I'd consider the MBA then coming in as an Associate/VP route

Aug 19, 2009

I know people who were in the military and jumped in to I-Banking in their late 20s.

Aug 19, 2009

Definitely not too late. Network around, and see what's out there. I'm sure there's a spot for you somewhere in IB. MM's probably a good bet, but also take a look at boutiques as well, if lifestyle's what you're going for.

Aug 19, 2009

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess I must have misheard because I heard a lot of people tell me that IB analyst roles are exclusively out of UG and that lateral roles are really hard to come by. I guess the next question then is how do I go about networking without any contacts in the field?

When I was coming out of undergrad, I tried the cold-emailing everyone I could, but got absolutely no responses. This was part of what encouraged me to go into accounting instead of continuously trying to get into IB. I figured that it would at least be semi-relevant and could help me better understand financial statements to build models. I feel like I would be a decent candidate because I have some experience with financial modelng, I follow the markets, and have a decent GPA . I'm just not really sure how to get in front of the right people. My school also has almost no alumni in IB since it's a non-target, so it's hard to get in touch with people that way as well.

Aug 19, 2009

There are tons of people who have taken your path, anyone who says that laterals don't exist is naive and inexperienced. Although I'm getting the impression that your GPA wasn't on point which will definitely be an issue for someone trying to make the move you are. Your age is fine, I didn't get in until my late 20's. Get the WSO guide, clean up your resume, and start applying like a mad man.

One other thing, don't go for MM because you think the hours are better. That's a lie.

Aug 19, 2009

You should target boutiques in the area. BB will likely not hire you.

I just started as a first year analyst at an industry specific boutique and I am mid 20s. Prior experience included 2 years credit and 1 year MSF.

Just keep grinding man, and I'm sure something will hit. Network your ass off.

Aug 19, 2009

I know someone who worked for Boeing for 3 years while getting their masters in econ and became a full time analyst at 27 for a BB.

Aug 19, 2009
MonkeyInSchool:

I know someone who worked for Boeing for 3 years while getting their masters in econ and became a full time analyst at 27 for a BB.

Weird, I think I know who you're talking about. Unless of course there are more people that follow that path (which I highly doubt).

Rise early, work hard, strike oil.

Aug 19, 2009

1- No
2- Not at all, you have no finance experience
3- Shoot for anything that is related to finance

Best Response
Aug 19, 2009

I'd caution against taking an anecdotal example and imputing it to be the norm.

That being said... you're not even close to being too old. Age is the least of your worries.

What you have working against you:
1. Non-target
2. 3.5 GPA from a non-target
3. You work in sales (it may be the greatest job in the world, but bankers are bankers and if you went from UG to a non-pedigreed career, that is certainly going to work against you)
4. No finance experience

Considerations:
1. You're not going to get any internships worth getting.
2. I'd steer away from the big banks, their hiring practices are very very rigid and structured; your time is best spent focusing on what is more penetrable for you give your circumstances
3. You need to teach yourself financial modeling and corporate finance
4. You need to communicate your commitment and proven dedication to working in finance (your resume should get this point across)
5. You need to sell the leadership/overachiever point since you went to a non-target and got an ok, but not stellar GPA
6. Leverage your current experience in software sales; maybe try to use your knowledge of the sector to wedge your way into a boutique tech investment bank, or maybe tech equity research

Is it impossible? Absolutely not. Many people have accomplished more with less going for themselves. But it will take hard work, dedication and commitment. If you're upto that, then its by all mean possible.

    • 2
Aug 19, 2009

Thanks for the kind words. I have had plenty of extracurricular activities, so I can definitely talk about those if given the chance.
@"Marcus_Halberstram"
1) Is it harder to get an internship or a FT position?
2) How long does it take to learn financial modeling and corporate finance?
3) I have studied and passed for actuarial exams regarding financial markets and modeling, will that help me when and if I get an interview?
4) What is a good way to shape my resume as to show that I want to break into finance?
5) That being said, can I pm/email you my resume, for you to check/correct it?

Aug 19, 2009

1. Like I said before, there is no internship worth having that will hire you.
2. It depends where you're starting from, how fast you pick it up and how much effort you put into it. How could you possibly expect someone else to answer that for you?
3. I have no idea what any of the those exams are. They may be very relevant, but I've been working on Wall Street for a handful of years and don't recognize it as anything of mention, so I doubt anyone else does... and I doubt it will get you an interview.
4. Use some fucking common sense. Do some actual work to figure it out. Research the field you want to work in and what they look for in candidates, read up on the industry.
5. Feel free to do so. But from the questions you're asking it looks like you have a far way to go. Use some common sense and do your own work. You're not in college anymore, no one is going to hand you a syllabus outlining what is expected of you to succeed. You need to figure it out on your own. And your ability to succeed is heavily reliant on your ability to figure that out.

    • 1
Aug 19, 2009

@"Marcus_Halberstram" Thanks. I will begin doing my research.

Aug 19, 2009

Also forgot to mention that the actuarial background may help in getting into a FIG (Financial Institutions Group) since it could be a benefit (but not a huge one) in insurance banking.

Aug 19, 2009

@"Marcus_Halberstram" Do FIG operate similarly to IBD? As, they go from analyst to associate to VP, etc. Also, can you comment on the exit opportunities in FIG (PE, HF, VC, etc)?

Aug 19, 2009
InvestmentConfucius:

@Marcus_Halberstram Do FIG operate similarly to IBD? As, they go from analyst to associate to VP, etc. Also, can you comment on the exit opportunities in FIG (PE, HF, VC, etc)?

FIG = Financial Institutions Group = a group in IBD

Read the FAQs and come back.

Aug 19, 2009

@"duffmt6" Thanks

Aug 19, 2009

How old is too Old for financial intern ?

Aug 19, 2009

the age is the least I would worry about.

Marcus has given a good piece of advice.

now do your homework and aim for some tech boutique IB, good luck.

Aug 19, 2009

Given your background in software sales, are you familiar with the various software sales models? If so, a tech or software focused bank or group could be a potential way in.

Aug 19, 2009

There are some similarities between your background and mine. I'd do as some of the people above have said. Since I'm going to graduate in a few months, I did a lot of research, came up with best case and worst case scenarios and planned for both of them. Considering I come from a non target, non finance background with no financial work experience, one of my biggest efforts has been networking and trying to learn the concepts myself. Here's something I'd recommend:

1. Search any of your questions and queries in the search bar on this site. It might take some digging but usually the information exists somewhere.
2. Use the company database here. I'd target the smaller firms with less structured recruiting processes. I put in my search criteria and then I went into each firm, found people I wanted to email, tried to figure out the emailing convention (unless it was already in the database), set up cold emails and sent them out asking people for informational interviews (just 5-15 minutes on the phone to talk and learn more about the finance world).
3. The above step has helped me a ton. I grew and am growing my network of finance professionals from 0 to nearly 100 now. I keep in touch with a lot of the contacts and the benefit of speaking to them is that I learned a lot about the industry, the trends and what it takes to be an analyst, associate, VP, MD etc. Plus most people I spoke to were supportive and willing to refer me to others and put me in their internship pools. An added benefit is that you get to hone your story by talking to so many strangers (It'll come in handy when you get interviews)
4. Cast a wide, wide net. Don't go IBD or bust. Leverage any background you might have and don't rule out any other financial roles. They might not seem as glamorous as IB but they're good learning experience and you have to pay your dues sometime
5. In terms of modeling, learning financial concepts and such, I bought the Wall Street Prep course and I'm going through it as we speak plus there are tons of books out there that will help you as well.
6. Be persistent. If you are doing the right things, you can still not land anything. Just keep going and something will work out eventually.

GL!

    • 1
Aug 19, 2009

No It's doesn't matter!

Aug 19, 2009

You need to network, my father broke in while in his late 30s (BB in Risk Management).

Aug 19, 2009

Express the fact that you are eager to break into IB and eager to work hard / learn etc. Do not, however, try and express that you are eager and just cannot wait to work 100 hr weeks - even if it is true (god help your soul) it sounds like complete bullshit and makes the interviewee look like they don't know what the hell thy are talking about. I mean no-one in their right mind wants to work 100 hour weeks, do you realize how many hours a day that breaks down to?

When hours are mentioned, and they will be b/c your age, simply communicate that you understand the commitment IB requires - not that you just can't wait to work 100 hour weeks....

Aug 19, 2009

JBGH, 100hrs are not madness in IBD...

Aug 19, 2009

This isn't constructive because you can't change it now but I will say it anyway. Why in the world did you go back and get a second undergrad degree? That was a waste of time and money, you could have just as easily taken a class or two to brush up your knowledge and then spent 6 months studying the GMAT to land a top B-School and then you had a shot at landing as an associate instead of an analyst.

I do not want to be too negative, you obviously seem determined so keep staying at it and the best of luck.

Aug 19, 2009

He's not saying it's madness, he's saying WANTING to work that much is madness.

Aug 19, 2009

.

Aug 19, 2009

I'm 23 and will be graduating (undergrad) at 26, and frankly I don't give a shit what other people think about my age, I just care if I get a job I like. Personally, I'm not interested in doing the 100 hour weeks at 26 (hell, I don't think I'd even be cut out for it now).

However, it really doesn't matter what we think, if you look back at what you wrote. You have to do what you want to do. Hours worked definitely comes into play in what you want to do. You can assume at a BB in NYC you're going to be working 80+ hours a week for 2 or 3 years as an analyst and then again for another couple of years as an associate. If you're willing to put that kind of effort into it, then kick ass, go for it. If you're interested in having a life/maintaining the life you've built since you left college, IB might not be the way to go. Just some thoughts for you, I'm obviously not in the industry, but I've been asking myself this same question for a while as well.

Best of luck to you, if you pick something you love doing that works with your lifestyle I'm sure it will work out!

Aug 19, 2009

Seems like you may be able to get in as an associate hire.

Aug 19, 2009

Associates are typically 28-32. Unless you look like you're 24, then perhaps you could try to come as an analyst given your lack of experience (no one is going to ask your age on an interview).

Aug 19, 2009
Nomade:

Associates are typically 28-32. Unless you look like you're 24, then perhaps you could try to come as an analyst given your lack of experience (no one is going to ask your age on an interview).

But they can still do the math and realize you're not 24 with all that schooling. Just go associate.

Aug 19, 2009

Depends on where you're trying to work. Analysts in London usually just turned 21 (they went to LSE or Oxbridge for 3 years). So you would definitely want to shoot for associate positions. In France, the typical background is grandes ecoles + 'big' DESS (Dauphine..) or magistere at Dauphine or Assas. So you would be only slightly older than the typical applicant but with a very atypical background.

I would aim for an associate position in London personally.

Aug 19, 2009

Actually the place doesn't matter. It could be UK, France, Belgium, USA, Luxembourg, ...

Is it really ok to apply to an associate position without any real work experience other than internships ?

Aug 19, 2009

It'll depend on how you sell yourself. 4 internships (some of lasting 6 months or so, I presume) adds up to something of a shortened analyst experience. Your plethora of postgraduate degrees should hopefully position you for an associate position.

Aug 19, 2009

Tropi, why don;t you consider starting your analyst sting now, while you are 24? Instead of spending 4 more years in the university, that is

Aug 19, 2009

Associates range from 28-32?

That is much older than ranges in other posts; I guess because we are talking about Europe now.

Anyone else knows about typical age ranges for associates in Europe?

Aug 19, 2009
Dude:

Associates range from 28-32?

That is much older than ranges in other posts; I guess because we are talking about Europe now.

Anyone else knows about typical age ranges for associates in Europe?

24-32

Aug 19, 2009

Associates in Europe are way way younger than 28-32, I would say 24-28.

Just start working as soon as you can, why would you want to do 2 master programs? And I know Solvay program quite well; it's not comparable with a real MBA so associate positions might be difficult to get. But you can always try.

If you choose to continue your studies, please bear in mind that every interviewer will demand an explanation for doing 2 masters in a similar subject. And that's a difficult question to answer in my opinion.

I hope my advice helps, the best of luck.

Aug 19, 2009
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Aug 19, 2009
Aug 19, 2009