NYC vs. London vs. Zurich vs. FFM
Hi guys,
In which city do you earn the most considering cost of living, taxes, exchange rates etc.? If someone of you worked in different locations how did they compare to each other in terms of quality of living? Especially right out of college what´s the best of those cities for your 20's?
I am looking forward to hear your opinion.
Lifelong New Yorker here and lived in all the cities you mentioned. Some thoughts-
New York and London are very similar. Social scene, cultural "feel", etc. If you're a top earner taxes might be a bit higher across the pond. Canary wharf is like the jersey city - lots of young guys in modern high-rise condos. I'd take into consideration the weak GBP though.
Zurich would be my top pick, assuming you have a generous comp package. By far the best "feel", with great restaurants, museums, and general safety. Skiing is amazing. Taxes are lower than the others, the Swiss taxation system is by cantons, and ZRH is in the lower end of rates. Get ready to pay up to $8-10 USD for a latte and $15 for a small sandwich. Highest cost-of-living. And the physical CHF is a beautiful currency -- I have a few 100 and 500 bills hanging on my wall.
FFM. What can I say, the most bang for your buck (literally as well). Cost of living is lower than the other 3 (especially rent, get ready to be surprised at how cheap it is). If you're a car guy like I am, the autobahns are great fun. Taxes are higher than Zurich. However, German culture puts a lot less prestige on banks and bankers in general, so it's less glamorous. FFM is not a top destination for new graduates, it's more of a "2nd tier" option. That being said, I recommend FFM if you're making under $250k.
For reference, I'm 28.
Thank you for the detailed response. This is very helpful. I heard IB 1st analyst salaries are 105k CHF (without bonus) at CS/UBS in Zurich compared to 50k £ (~ 64k CHF) in London. That's over 40k more + less taxes. I am not sure if higher costs of living in Switzerland justify this? What do you think?
Wtf are you talking about, CHF 500.- bills don't exist (and never have)
Based on my 10+ years in both cities, I think this is probably accurate if you're young and single. I'm older and have a family so different circumstances - I absolutely love London, even though just about everything is probably cheaper in New York (transportation, taxes, rents). The best time to experience New York is as a young professional - yes, it's a cliche, but it still is true, if you can make it there you can make it anywhere - and you'll absolutely get more bang for your buck in New York to boot (compared to London at least). FFM is great for a lot of reasons (I've never lived there but visited and stayed there many times while working for a German bank) but I would strongly recommend cutting your teeth against the top bankers in London or New York (no offense meant my fellow WSOers from FFM, but the best bankers I've worked with were working in the London or New York offices of every firm I've worked at).
How do you think Brexit will have an impact on those locations? Is it likley that places like FFM profit and gain importance compared to London? Is it still valid to compare London to NYC after Brexit? It seems that the good times are over for banking in London.
It seems more and more that we can consider ourselves lucky if we can avoid a hard Brexit.
FFM: 700.000 ppl London: 8.000.000 ppl where 1.500.000 working in finance at the very least.
Really, how is possible to compare that?
London is the best by far, sure you have to swallow high taxes etc but I have lived in Zurich for a while and it is extremely boring compared to London.
London tries to be too much at the same time. Good at a lot of things, exceptional at nothing.
London is an old city. It does not 'try' to do anything, it merely is.
You do not judge London, my friend, it is London that judges you.
Funny that the first thing you mention is how old London is. Old is synonymous with boring most of the time.
Back to the topic:
Is this legit? Base salaries for 1st year analysts (according to friends in the industry/this forum):
NYC: 85 000 $ (= 65 700 GBP) / Income tax rate: average of 37.0% London: 55 000 GBP (= 55 000 GBP) / Income tax rate: average of 40.0% Frankfurt: 65 000 € (= 55 000 GBP) / Income tax rate: average of 30.0% Zurich: 105 000 CHF (= 81 300 GBP) / Income tax rate: average of 19.59%
*Cost of living including rental (Zurich = Index):
Zurich 100.0 New York City 107.9 London 85.8 Frankfurt 59.4
*The composition of our reference basket of goods and services represents the spending habits of a three-person European family. The prices of the 122 goods and services are weighted by monthly consumption. (Source: UBS price and earnings 2015 report)
According to this Zurich and Frankfurt would be the most bang for your buck. What do you think?
This basically confirms my initial observations living in each city (I didn't file taxes in each country, since my work is remote).
Like I said before, the cost of living in Frankfurt is FAR lower. And it doesn't feel any "worse" than the others. I happen to be a big fan of German culture, so if I was in your situation, Frankfurt would be my pick.
In terms of base salary for 1st-year analysts, London and Frankfurt look broadly accurate, NY feels a tad high, that Zurich number doesn't look at all right to me based on my experience at my company's branch offices in Geneva and Zurich, although admittedly it has been a couple of years since I hired there.
Yeah NYC could be too high, I have this number from some posts here, so it's not 100% legit. The number for Zurich is accurate. A friend of mine accepted a full time offer at UBS in Zurich (after his Master degree) and the base salary is 105k.
What you've put for London is the 'higher rate' band that kicks in at GBP 45,001, so your average tax rate is a good bit lower. Including national insurance, your total deductibles are around 28% at 55k. For Frankfurt the total tax rate is c.26% (incl. church tax and solidarity contribution, if you're registered in Frankfurt). What kills are the deductibles, i.e. retirement, unemployment and health insurance. If you account for that, it takes your total deductibles to 44%. That does take some of the bang out of your buck, if you will. F*** this. I'm off to Zurich.
M&A associate pay city by city (based on 2014 data)
Source: http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/169351/heres-much-can-earn-asso…
Looks like boni are far lower in Zurich due to smaller deal flow.
London seems high, especially if you consider the weakening pound since 2014
Absolutely agree. I remember that the base salary for a graduate in London was GBP 55k a few years back (for a top group within a top BB).
I suppose Zürich may give you the best quality of life, arguably even more if you consider having a family and put kids to school without spending all your money. It may become boring pretty quickly though.
Agree.
Remind that language is important, so if you don't speak German/French I would pick out the basket FFM Zurich Paris etc. Same for Milan and Madrid. Then you will have only London and NYC
I am sure you are referring to Brexit. The thing is that a lot of the functions being moved to Frankfurt are focused around trading.
Agreeing
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