Hello everyone, I am a junior VP in the healthcare team of a tier 2 bank. We do M&A, ECM, levfin work for healthcare companies (pharma, medtech and services). I've been staffer, fast tracked. I love my job at every level. Coming from a non target school, I've been in a similar position than you. Happy to answer any questions. Best
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I have committed to a 2-week trip in Europe (non-refundable) last month for late July. I want to switch to IB as a post-MBA associate. How do I tell them I will need those days off prior to hiring without pissing everyone off?
Wait, what? Will this be two weeks during your summer internship, or have you been hired and this is two weeks during training before starting full time?
I'm not hired yet, currently working BB Corp Banking. I want to apply for full-time IB associate positions. I already have relevant experience and all FINRA exams. Had to plan this trip 6-months in advance is the problem (tickets etc).
Get the job first and then you can discuss it. 2 weeks is not the end of the world. Be ready to work during those and try to tell them shortly after receiving the contract
First question, if you have a NYC office, are they hiring??
Secondly, how granular do you get in your modeling for pharma companies? Do you have probability of success rates for each phase for a drug?
If you could expand on some relevant multiples specifically for pharma that would be great.
How did you get into the healthcare sector? My university degree is relevant for healthcare/biotech, and I am actively trying to find boutiques to lateral into (not in the banking space currently).
What is your view on the innovation in the UK/EU regarding healthcare/pharma compared to the US?
It doesn't sound like you're looking to the buyside at all, why not? Would you ever move into industry?
Cheers!
Hi, can’t say for the NYC office
Pharma modelling: it depends what type of Pharma companies we are looking at. If it is more spec Pharma / generics (i.e. selling the drugs), then it is more price / volume dynamics with some market shares calculations. If you look more at biotech businesses or Pharma companies that develops products, then you would look at more complex models, with factors such as: - defining the patient population (prevalence, incidence, 1st Line, etc.) - the pricing - the lifecycle (patent expiring) - probability adjust each phases (you have some stats per drugs per TAs) - OPEXs also adjusted and modelled separately. Overall, nothing too complicated, but you need to think about it.
In terms of Pharma valuation: -EV / Revenue -EV / EBITDA -P/E
If you look at some biotech, you can start doing some funky things like EV / Peak sales but at the end of the day, the DCF is the preferred methodology.
I got in healthcare because they offered me a job. I also wanted to work in a really dynamic sector (TMT, healthcare). Look at some specialised boutiques (e.g.: Centerview, Leerink, Cowen & Co), they may like a more scientific profile
I thought about moving to the buy side a lot but i am more a hunter than a farmer. Bankers gets a lot of pressure when they move up but so do buy-side people. I also quite enjoy working on a lot of situations and certainly not for 5 years...
Not sure why you got MS. Thank you for the detailed response. Cheers mate.
Sokoma, congrats on your success so far. I am currently a sophomore in college (non-target). However, I worked as a summer analyst in a biotech/med tech/pharma focused hedge fund this past summer. this coming summer I willl be working a larger biotech hedge fund (2b+). I am interested in what the banking side of has to offer in the life science space. how did you break in from non-target to your current bank? did you have prior experience or did you just network extremely well? I would love to hear!
(written on a phone in the car so please excuse any errors)
I think I was extremly resilient.
After my master in finance, I did a first internship in m&a in a tiny boutique. To get this role, I had applied to 150+ internships (those are quite common in France): m&a, ECM, DCM, top boutiques and small boutiques. I interviewed in 6 places, was rubbish at 5 and got one job.
Once I was in, it was much easier: i joined a boutique a bit bigger and a 3rd one a bit bigger again by applying to 10 roles each.
Basically I was an intern for a year and half when I started my actual job, which is quite normal in france.
Basically, to get in from non target: -apply a lot, to everything -don t mess up your interviews (you won't have many shots) -substitute your lack of shiny names with some experiences
Thank you for your advice.
Can you talk about the year before you got the VP promote? Did the bank give you an indication that you were likely to get promoted? Did you have increased anxiety in that year? Did you put in more hours / facetime?
VP wasn't exactly a big deal. I filled a form, had to put some references and it was pretty much automatic. I have been working for a while where I am so pretty much everyone knows me. Getting the support needed was quite straightforward.
In terms of process: -filled a form explaining how great I am -put some references in the form -i got an interview with the committee -the committee interviewed my references
I would think that promotion comes to you rather than you working to get it (at least up to VP)
Thanks - we just had someone passed up for VP so made me curious / anxious about it
Thanks for the AMA! I'm very interested in the healthcare space but my background is purely finance. When you're executing deals, how much industry knowledge do you need (e.g. have a great technical understanding of drug pipeline and all competitor offerings)? What are some resources you use to get yourself up to speed, and how detailed are your models? Do you have any suggestions for someone who wants to join HC PE/buyside?
On a side note - I'm currently investing in HC equities in my spare time, and I make comps sheets, look at financial metrics, product pipeline, investor presentations and news. I then make a qualitative judgment, do you have any suggestions on how to hone this process?
Industry knowledge: Your industry knowledge will help you to position the story, find comps, find analogies and understand the key drivers, etc. Everything is new all the time which it makes it interesting. At the end of the day, it is still banking: drafting IMs, pitches, etc. I think the industry knowledge is much more helpful when you are pitching the deal: you are not paid so you need to do things efficiently. Also in order to win a deal, you need to pitch the client for 1-2 years and therefore you need to have enough content to talk to him weekly / monthly about the industry...
You get up to speed mostly by reading DDs and research reports (a lot of them). This is the best way to learn. In terms of big report, few banks have put some market primers out there. Every year, in January, the largest healthcare conference is happening in SF. All research analysts publish research report on the key themes by company and by sub sectors (Pharma, medtech, less so services) - look for those (JP Morgan Conference or San Francisco conference). Cowen & Co also publishes twice a year a 2000+ pages report on all the diseases, pipeline, etc.
You should read brokers (they have much more information than you) and blogs like SeekingAlpha. Transcripts are also very helpful. I don’t invest myself so can’t really give you better advices than buy low and sell high....
Thank you @sokoma for doing this AMA.
Could you elaborate on why it takes 1-2 years of pitching to win a deal and also the point of talking to your client weekly?Thanks a lot for doing this. I’m starting analyst role in hc coverage at a BB in nyc in June.
1- Can you discuss how much London team works with nyc? And industry silos that you’re more exposed to being out of London 2- Decision to stay in London especially with brexit uncertainty over the past few years? 3- can you give better approximation of tier 2 bank? 4- current comp and how that has progressed?
1) NYC / London: It depends how your bank is structured. If it is a global P&L with a rainmaker based in the US, then it will be US leading the show. In my bank, I rarely work on US deals but we have MDs coming to Europe. Given the size of the market, there are topics that are much more covered in the US (e.g. CMOs, Medtech) than in Europe. US MDs are also more specialised in general whereas in Europe you can’t work on a single industry. I personally spend my time in Services and Medtech mostly but have done some Pharma in the past.
2) My partner is in London so it simplifies the choice quite a lot. Other corporate cultures did not appeal to me as well: either too agressive, too elitist. London is the right balance
3) Up and coming tier 2 bank.
3) It is competitive: check the report made by Arkesden. They have some good stats there
Hi Sokoma, thanks for the AMA. When you say culture in other places is too elitist, what do you mean ? That you would not have been promoted VP because of your non-target background, for instance ?
Why Healthcare?
1) Deal flow: this is one of the most active space 2) Business model heavy: you spend less time looking at financial adjustments, much more at understanding the business model. It is much more essential to understand how the product is sold and why it is going to stay like that than to adjust your EBITDA for X,Y, Z (still important) 3) They gave me a job, that’s a good reason to start
Do you think juniors in IB today are lazier than previously?
I wouldn't say taht an analyst is lazy because he works "only" 80 hours. I do think that analysts are working less today which is a positive: it doesn't make sense to kill people's life just for a profile.
By giving more power to the analysts, seniors also had to adapt: no more late friday night staffing or pointless book: i think that people are getting more efficient on both side.
The key for the analysts is to understand what is essential (client request, big pitch) vs what is not essential (profiles in a useless book).
I also think that technology will help to improve efficiency (but we are still far from it being used)
What advice would you have for a post-MBA associate who did a summer in the U.S. in IB to recruit into a London office?
It will be tough for you. MBAs are not common in Europe. You’ll have to find a role in a team that can’t recruit any analyst 3 with the right experience. I would try to work 6 months a year in the US before moving to Europe, or join a specific program that allows you to do so. Unless you have some very specific skills (e.g. scientific by background, or something like that)
If considering a transfer to London from NY (post MBA ASO), what year would you recommend completing before pursuing the transfer without it hurting VP chances too much?
thanks for the AMA. speak french too but currently studies in in the UK. complete non target. I am pharma student so Interested in HC IB. any tips when preparing for recruitment. it is been hard for me to get interviews due to the non-target etiquette? any advice to get around it? finally getting ready to do a master at LBS but will have to get in deep debt for that. would you say it is worth it?
With a pharma background, you should try to network with healthcare bankers / speak to headhunter about this. It will be very tough to find your first role but once you have it, all the doors will open up to you. You have few options: -Finding an internship in France / UK: it will be difficult given the competition with people with business background -Doing a master in Finance: this will facilitate the move but is quite expensive + long -Trying to break-in without further work: this will require a lot of effort but the graduate programs in the UK will welcome people from different background and you probably have a decent shot at it
In any case, those 3 solutions can be pursued in parallel
thank you for your response . I am cutrently still an undergrad but having a hard geting interviews. I landed An ER position for pharma stocks this summer at a known company. was just wondering How I could increase my chance of getting an interview for IB internship comes next year recruitment or is the master my only chance.
also if you are a mentor on here would love to work with you.
Thanks for the AMA.
I'm a 1st year 24 year oldinvestment banking analyst with a no name boutique currently working in Germany. I have no Masters degree, my bachelors degree is from a non-target Eastern European university, and I am a level 2 CFA candidate.
I would like to lateral to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 bank in London over the next two years. What would you advise me to focus on now, and how to position myself in the future to be able to lateral to a strong shop with large deals in the near future?
Also, regarding the application process itself, how should I tackle it? Linkedin networking, online applications, headhunters?
Thanks a lot for your time.
Prepare for the interview and try to move asap. don't be too selective given your background. Apply, apply, and apply again...
For the application process: all the above: -Linkedin networking -Online applications (less doable) -Talk to all headhunters
....
Hi, You seem to have a lot of internship experience which is a positive. This is still quite early on in your career so you don't really need to be specialised.
Not sure what you mean by the equity side, but if you want to go to IB: -Applies to the graduate programs / summer internship -Speak to headhunters
Being hired as an Analyst 1 is not easy: most banks have a graduate program and unless a team has some needs, there are no reasons to hire one. I would try to get in lower tier banks / boutiques, do one year and then move.
I will start at a MM Ib in London (think MUFG/ING), how difficult will it be to transfer to a "tier 2" Bank?
Not too difficult so long that they are recruiting. Prepare your interviews well and it should be ok. Makes sure to present your CV as a IB CV (not Corporate banking or whatever else).
Could you elaborate a bit on what's the difference between IB CV & Corporate banking CV?
When you're staffing analysts on projects what's the process like? Do you have a good sense of what everybody is working on at the moment or do you just give it to whoever has more bandwidth?
As a staffer your job is to make sure that things get done without loosing your analyst. The size of the team usually influence a lot on how you make a decision. It was very dependent upon the project: - For long term projects (e.g. coverage of an account), i would try to keep the same analyst on every book that relate to the account. -For short term requests or one-offs, i would typically know who is on what and makes sure that this is achievable so long that the point above work -For deal: you eat what you kill for most of the projects
What i found was more challenging was to manage very efficient people. When someone is able to produce the work in 2 hrs when someone else take 4 hours, how do you staff him? You let him leaves 2 hrs before or you re balance the work?
Firstly, thank you for doing this:
I was wondering which banks have the strongest healthcare franchise in EMEA (both BB/EB/Specialists), much of the information in WSO in this regard is US centric. If you were starting as an analyst with a keen interest in healthcare, where would your preference be?
Strongest MF PE players in Healthcare EMEA? Understand that there are also some MM Specialist botiques such a G Squared
Would you have any suggested resources for learning about healthcare financial modelling? Have already been reading FiercePharma/Biotech and some industry reports
Botique vs BB comp levels in London? There seems to be a lot of misinformation on WSO in this regard, would appreciate if you have any data on the true disparity (no problem if you would prefer not to discuss this)
Thank you very much
*EMEA healthcare: -Leaders by far: JP Morgan and Rothschild have maybe 80%+ of all sell-side, Evercore (different style from the previous ones) -High on the radar: GS, MS, Barclays, Jefferies, -Meaningful player: DB, RBC, Nomura, Lazard, UBS, etc. -Starts at RTH if you want some strong creds / execution experience
Specialist funds: GHO, G-Square, Archimed Strong healthcare team: usual names such as Carlyle, KKR, BC Partners, IK, etc.
Suggested resources: not really...
Gap for Boutique vs BB comps. I don't really have any data. Evercore paid extremely well historically, RTH pays less well. For the banks, take the Arkesden report, it is quite realistic
This is great thank you very much.
Do you have an option on the other US EB’S with a healthcare presence in EMEA, namley Perella Weinberg, PJT, Centerview?
PJT used to have a good team but the partners in charge left Perella they are doing a deal once a year, mostly life sciences. Centerview: everything is US focused as it is more biotech. I don’t really see them but it doesn’t mean that they are not there (we don’t do biotech that much)
Hi sokoma, I hope you and your family are healthy and safe. I would like to pick your brain on how do you think covid-19 pandemic will impact healthcare deal flow in 6-12 month and 2021 IB intern / analyst intake?
Second this question.
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