Every day there are numerous posts from undergrads or recent grads with nearly identical topics - “Do I have a chance at landing an XYZ entry-level position at ABC”. Posts like these, where all they seek is validation from WSO through means of seeing ‘Yes’ as a response, provide no real benefit to the community or the OP. *Note this rant is not about posts that involve highly specific/unique scenarios where personal guidance is needed.
Why I despise these posts
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Many of these jabronis just want self-validation, not advice
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If a random WSO member’s one-word comment is the catalyst that influences a career decision, I infer three things:
- You don’t want the job as much as you think you do
- You (currently) lack drive and/or confidence
- You already have a preconceived notion you aren’t qualified, effectively eliminating yourself before you even apply
- 95% of these posts have been answered in the past
So how you do compete? Gain a competitive edge in every area you can
Sure, Brad went to Yale and is expecting his offer two days after his first interview. However, did Brad develop relationships with multiple employees at ABC to vouch for him, or is he relying on his academic background? Did Brad spend 100+ hours preparing for one job in particular? Can Brad articulate exactly why he wants the job?
Most likely, Brad is still going to get the job, but that doesn’t mean you won’t as well. Find the areas where you can outperform others, and you’ll start to see the benefits.
I also highly recommend looking at the user profiles of WSO members who have success stories. Notice their attitude even in times of desperation. You won’t find any doubt portrayed in their old posts, ‘chance’ or ‘possible’ aren’t in their vocabulary. These people are (generally) positive, driven, and find every possible way to leverage themselves to land the position they want.
A moderate GPA from a non-target school isn’t going to eliminate you from a potential job.
Instead, it is this very assumption that will. For 99% of you on this forum, yes – you have a chance. Yes, it is going to take a shitload more work to narrow the gap between yourself and others. Yes, you will have to study x^3 times more than other applicants with better credentials. Just understand how to identify your weaknesses versus other candidates and develop those (applicable) weaknesses into strengths that give you an edge over others, and you will find yourself better situated than many..other than Brad. You can't change the past, but certainly the future.
Apologies for grammar/formatting issues, been two days since sleep.
-Posted by someone who has gone through more than you can imagine
P.S. Congrats on the job offer Brad
so you're telling me there's a chance...
jokes aside, this is spot on. if kids will self-select themselves out of a role, then it just wasn't meant to be.
Nice post!
It's sad because these posts flood WSO and make up maybe 25-33% of total posts these days
Edit: Do you have a chance at halting these do I have a chance posts?
Not after this gets stickied to all undergraduates cough Mods
I’d imagine most of these kids haven’t read the site for too long and just want an honest opinion.
Some are looking for validation but a lot of people are lied to to save their feelings and want an unbiased approach.
I choose to ignore most of these posts but you’re right it does seem to be increasing at an exponential rate and eventually something should be done about it.
Yeah, many people join the forum and ask questions that people like you and me would consider a troll post because it has either been covered so many times before or it is just so obvious to you and me after being on this forum for a long time. For example, I remember seeing a thread by someone who didn't know what an offer rate was.
What's an offer rate?
Yep, these people are jerking themselves off. Good points you made.
Typically there is a heavier rush of these types of threads when approaching recruiting season/s, but I agree it's an issue if you don't use the filters... For about two years we've been requiring all new threads to be tagged based on what experience level the thread is related to... If you filter for the more senior topics, might make for a better mix for you.
We're also recently experimenting with certified user only discussions (certified users can decide whether to only allow other certified users to respond)... I think there have only been four of them so far, but they've been gold.
I'm hopeful we can keep quality high and continue to evolve our moderation tools to let the more annoying threads float away (we've already implemented measures here...)
Thanks for your thoughts, the filters are probably just not obvious enough! Patrick
I would like to suggest the creation of a "Chance Me" type forum on this website, much like there is already one for introductions, etc.
Yeah, I like this. There should be a forum that is dedicated to threads regarding chances for getting into an IB analyst role, top MBA, etc.
WallStreetOasis.com Apologies if I've missed it but is there a way to filter for Certified User Threads Only?
I assume you mean the new threads which only allow for Certified Users to respond? If so, yes, you just use the filter right under "All Recent Content" called "Certified User Discussions"... https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/tracker
See it?
Thanks, Patrick
I am as close as a non-target and non-traditional background anyone can get, even starting college again. I had to hustle for my connections. I feel many students/kids are so ingrained with statistics/GPA/number-based figures to see what their chances are because of the educational system.
Can you really blame them? They're not taught to hustle or properly network to get into IBD/Trading/Finance. They're told by counselors and crap fed to them - "This is what your realistic chances are getting admitted into XYZ."
It would be helpful for new users to search through WSO and use selective keyword searches before making a post regarding their "chances." However, almos everyone wears a different size shoe.
Yes..some cases are unique, but everyone's circumstance is, there is no "set" pool of norms unless you went to a target school or have networks established. Throw a banana at them, they could end up as a future colleague.
Good for Brad, hopefully he makes it through the first year!
I understand why the posts exist, and although it is somewhat hidden in passive aggressive text of this post, I did want to provide more than just an angry rant message/block all posts regarding job offer chances.
If I extracted information from this post an summarized it in a format that a part-time emotional therapist/part-time career counselor/Mr. Rodgers cult follower would use, it would say:
"Never question whether or not you can get a job, instead ask yourself what do you need to improve upon (even though everyone is unique and perfect already!) in order to get the job. That is all that matters - and together we can do this!*
*unless you have a criminal background, participate in terrorist organization, etc.
Summary: If you post about the possibility of getting a job, don’t ask a vague question regarding whether it is possible given your GPA and major. Provide details about yourself, ask what you can do to increase your chances, and understand that almost anyone applying for a new job questions whether they are ‘good enough’. If people followed a format similar to the above, future posts would eventually provide enough information where relevant users could find existing answers instead of posting a new thread. I also believe that post provides motivation to those who doubt their skills, and encourages them to focus on what matters (both in regards to a specific role and changing their mentality).
Excellent response.
What you stated is very well all true. Many people simply accept the fact they received no phone calls/denied letters/e-mails regarding their status. This simply goes for all industries - not just banking. They believe they met the essential criteria to meet the qualifications for the role, instead of the -preferred- qualifications, and it is simply a matter of luck and time before they land their next gig. Hence there are those who "wait" to see if they will get a promotion at work, as opposed to the guy hustling for the promotion.
I remember reading about a post about how "polished" a candidate can be. Feedback is crucial during before, during, and after interviews. Finding resources, people (like those on WSO) that can provide constructive feedback is actually quite hard. Many users can attest that WSO helped them get to where they are now, so the feedback from here is positive.
Everyone has a shot at this, it is a matter of mindset and how you approach the situation.
Why don’t we create a thread that refreshes every week or so? Maybe call it...I dunno...the “Do I have a chance?” thread or something.
It allows everyone else to browse through WSO peacefully, yet allowing the concerned individuals to get an answer. As pointed above, these threads are being posted way too often and it’s getting annoying.
This would be solid. Happens on most career subreddits and works very well.
this is great, thanks for posting!
And of course, then the original poster deletes the message body with "delete delete delete delete" after getting a couple of monkey shit thrown...
Fellow WSO-ers,
I'm just going to keep this simple. 26 years old, college drop out, convicted felon. Chances of landing an IB FO role at top BB (think GS, MS, JPM)?
Thank you!
Did you drop out of a target or semi-target? Given your unique circumstance you might shoot for an SA gig at MM or EB. School year is winding down and there could always be one of these SAs who backs out and opens up a spot that has to be filled.
Was your felony violent or non-violent? If it was violent refer to WSO threads on interview questions about turning strengths into weaknesses. Either way just make sure you have good stories about lessons learned.
Always keep in mind that you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.
Some hidden advice in here. The "Always keep in mind that you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take." is a double entrendre, presuming the offence was violent and had to do with you unloading a glock on the streets. They don't care about violent crimes, just things like underage drinking or j-walking.
lol
Accurate and necessary rant but I feel like Patrick is right in that this is just going to be the nature of the forum in and around recruiting season. Would help to have a sticky post on the front page explaining exactly what SeekingAlphaMale outlined above. Most new UG's on the form are going to want validation. Shit, I would've wanted it too when I was a freshman / sophomore.
Hi Gang, I have been started a financial blog which became the most book marked on theSiliconINvestor. Then moved it to Facebook. I just completed 10 years and not a single losing trade including the recent double top on the US markets last month. I trade for a couple of high net worth clients including a member of the SharckTank. Yet, have not had a single interview or response in spite of my track record and sending hundreds of cv's. Recently started a post here on WSO "looking for a trading job in Toronto", but so far no real insight. What does it take, I am not sure I have the answer....
Preach Brother! In the end it comes down to how bad you want it and how hard you work for it. Hustle for your goals!
I feel like there's way to much ranking of schools and banks. I took a break from this community after I learned what I needed. I stopped worrying about if I'll break in and began to decide how I'll do it. I'm at a non-target, but I just hustled a bit and now I'm going into a PE internship. I didn't let anyone tell me I could/couldn't do it, I just did it. Now I've got a foot in the door and I'll see where I go from here. I don't care about exit ops or what my pay will be or the prestige of the fund. I'm just open to meeting people, learning something new, and jumping on a good opportunity when I see one.
Very much agreed.
I think those posts have a place here. Just make a section for it.
Now why?
For starters ease of use, most users are not going to read through a bunch of "if I have a chance" to find a similar match. It's easier to just ask.
Second, each candidate is unique and the person is just asking for an evaluation. More importantly, they want a tailored solution.
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That is kind of the problem. Schools today don't have a strong career service or professional development.
Very few undergrads get that 60-100K job fresh out the gate. Real life starts now well in your case as soon as you start your 1st job.
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STEM is 5x harder, so that makes sense. You're surrounded by Finance people, but don't kid yourself by thinking that this shit is as hard as any kind of hard science, math or engineering. Most of this could actually be learned purely through on-the-job training, though people will be butt-hurt to read that.
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