Monkeys,
How is live and study in cities such as Dallas or Houston for investment banking? My goal is to work there after my MSF.
As an international student, I would like to hear more about given my interest in UTA MSF.
No NYC for the high cost of living/house etc. Pure American experience. @BobTheBaker" named Texas the greatest nation in the world, I trust him (maybe :-))
Share your thoughts and if you have experience.
Can't say anything about investment banking, but Texas has a lot of Oil Money. Tons of PE/ family offices over there.
Thank you bro, this is great to read! I think Texas would be a beautiful bet on my future! Do you think will be a big cultural gap from France to Texas?
Yes, but you both like French fries, so there's that.
Yes, I think Houston for first
Ummm ... just go NYC actually
Houston is a big IB zone in Texas. Mostly will be commodity or other non-equity class type deal flow. Some of the well known Big banks in Houston (in no particular order): Citi, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs, Barclays, Credit Suisse, UBS, Deutsche, BAML, Wells Fargo. You also have some that are more commercial oriented banks (Frost) if you are looking for lighter genesis into banking.
Can't speak much for Dallas, although from my understanding there are more hedge funds/PE shops here than there are in Houston.
Don't get too caught up in the Dallas/Houston ego's; they are very apparent and different in their own way.
You are wise for avoiding NYC on the basis of cost/expenses, but don't rule out NYC forever.
Great reply bro thank you so much! Do you think with UTA MSF I can get a FO role in NYC? Or is better to look at other MSF? In NYC i think i'll get into only Fordham/Baruch (non target)
If you don't want to take over the world in IB, don't go to NYC.
Dallas has a fair share of IB roles compared to it's over all fiance presence. But most of it is located around debt securities , real estate (REITs) and commodities. Houston has more IB work but is heavily focused on commodities primarily on oil and other energy products. Dallas and Houston are cheaper than NYC but come with lower salaries which in my opinion is more of an issues than expenses. If you start your career out making 150 all in while spending 120 to live comfortably you are in a better position than making 90 to 100 all in and spending 55 to live comfortably. You will save more in TX but you will handicap your long term career earnings potential because all businesses base your pay negotiations on your previous pay even if that practice is a fucking retarded principal.
This is a great help, very thank you man! But how can I get a work in NYC? I think I can get into Fordham only in NYC, and UTA isn't a target for NYC IBD.. Maybe Vandy MSF? Really in trouble
IB salaries in Texas are similar to IB salaries in NYC
You are off base. Dallas and Houston residents have higher purchasing power. Just look at housing costs.
https://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes-for-sale/Texas/Somerset-Green…
You can buy new 2580 sq ft house in Houston center for 650k from luxury home builder. What can you buy for 650k in Manhattan?
Purchasing power is great, but you have to look at long term trajectory the difference in base salary makes. Having a base that is 15 to 50% higher makes a HUGE impact on total lifetime earnings over the long run as it has an impact on every job you take after that if you factor a normal wage growth trajectory.
There is no significant difference in pay between IB/ Corp banking/ Commercial banking salaries in Texas vs NYC
If you want to go IB in Texas, UTD is better than UTA, largest growing UG business school in the nation is what they love to say. GS is moving all their operations to Uptown Dallas by Q2 2018 (buddy interning in ops in Irving right now). JPM has consumer and retail in Dallas. Don't think Morgan Stanley has anything in Dallas. Houston obviously has many more shops, but they are all oil & gas.
Bro do you think the same about the MSF for UT? (UTD > UTA) I'm international student (like the op) interested in pursuing a career in FO in a BB
UTA is usually considered UT Arlington. UT Austin is obviously the top in the UT system and is usually considered just UT, but UT Dallas > UT Arlington. If you can get into UT Austin, especially McCombs, absolutely go there.
Do this, and then you'll actually be working equities in Dallas.
I'm in IB at a boutique in Dallas. The quality of life here is pretty good (purchasing power wise and most of the time only a small drop in salary from NY). I think Dallas is a 'cooler' city to live in than Houston both figuratively and literally speaking (of course Dallas summers are still horribly hot). But truthfully, I'd recommend you go to Houston for IB. The IB job pickings are fairly slim in Dallas. JPM, Goldman, Houlihan and Greenhill have small offices here, and a few other boutiques have shops in town, but the openings are fiercely competitive. Because of O&G, Houston has a ton more IB openings. If I were you and TX was my target, I'd do something in school that shows that you're interested in the energy sector and then apply to Houston. Dallas has plenty of exit ops for PE and a few hedge funds, but IB roles are scarce compared to Houston.
Thank you bro, but if i'm not interested in energies? I should find something different or different place such is Boston/Philly etc?
Could I send you a PM on your Dallas experience?
Go for it.
Houston is better for IB/ Energy Private Equity but Dallas seems to be better for everything else (Real Estate / Private Equity/ Asset Management/ Hedge Funds/ Family Offices)
Can't speak much for IB in Texan cities but the people, the genuineness of State, the low COL, and probably some of the best experiences ever, will trump mostly any other State without an issue.
UT -> Houston IB -> Dallas PE
University of Texas (Austin) has the strongest business program in Texas by far, and will help the most with recruiting for FO finance roles in Texas and the Southeast. Huge alumni presence in finance.
Houston is best for investment banking, with a number of BBs. However, there is a heavy focus on energy (obviously) so consider if that is an industry you would like to be in. Dallas has a small JPM office, Houlihan is strong but has a very poor rep culture-wise, and Stephens is a great option. Goldman is also in Dallas, but its primarily RE and middle-office work. That's about it for IB in Dallas.
However Dallas has stronger AM/PE/HF roles (with the exception of KKR in Houston), but most recruits come from BBs or MMs in New York/Houston over the MM/Boutiques in Dallas, perhaps because of the sheer number of people in those programs. There are exceptions of course.
Dallas is also a WAY better place to live than Houston. You can all hate on this comment, but everyone I know who went to Houston left within 2 years for Dallas or other cities. EVERYONE. Biggest complaints: too many dudes, not many places to go out, zoning regs all fucked up, summers "slit-your-wrists unbearable".
Great comment. Do you think the UT MSF worth for an international student like me? Can open a possibility for NYC or other offices later? Next year will be STEM designed, so I'll gain 3y of OPT permission
If you want to be in Texas, UT MSF is the best option. NYC? Possibly, but it will require serious effort on your end - just look at a map.
Vanderbilt MSF is considered the top MSF program, and would probably be better if you want to go NYC. I think UVA has a good one as well - they're just a strong school in general for business. But if you like Texas, go UT.
Chill out on the Houston commentary, summers are hot but it's not like Dallas is northern California. Houston and Dallas nightlife are roughly the same, and there are far better looking Asian/ Hispanic chics in Houston than Dallas.
I am from Dallas here. Lots of IB with the majority in Real Estate/Energy/Consumer/Southern Region. That said, lots and lots of banks have been moving analysts from NYC to Dallas (for regional support and standard of living). Lots of single young professionals so that's always a plus.
I hope by UTA you were trying to shorten UT Austin, UT Arlington MSF will not get you any IB gigs
If you move from anywhere else in the U.S. here, you will have a blast! Modern housing with good roads. Lots of food options to choose from. There is a big Korean/Chinese/Vnese population so the food is always authentic
Thank you all guys! In addition to UT Austin MSF I'm considering the MSF at SMU Cox. Worth it?
I've seen the stats and SMU looks good
SMU is good, some really interesting courses available that are IB/PE/HF focused through the alternative Asset Management program. There is also a student run energy investment fund.
SMU is solid, seen people in MM IB and BB AM from the MSF program. Not sure if they offer the Alts concentration for the MSF, but that undergrad program consistently sends people to BBs in NYC.
The alts program is not offered for the MSF which is a shame, the alts program has placements comparable to top targets.
I had to shake the idea of equities in Dallas out of my mind for a moment
UT Austin, Rice, TAMU for energy. SMU and TCU will also get you good gigs. UTD has potential to land you a decent IB gig in TX but you'll have to network much, much harder than kids from other schools.
SMU is almost as strong as UT in Dallas. Very very strong network.
UT Arlington is definitely a non-target but they will get a handful of top business students (10 or less per year if I had to guess) in decent Corporate Banking / Commercial Banking roles (in the Dallas-area only) with some networking. They have a non-existent IB presence, although the Deutsche Bank US Americas CFO graduated from there. Then again, most kids there are aiming for Big 4 or Corp Fin roles.
SMU is much stronger than UTD, not even comparable.
Who compared UTD and SMU? You clearly misread my post. People in Texas refer to UT Austin as "UT", so yes, SMU is almost as strong as UT Austin in the Dallas area because of the network.
Went to UTD - got into a good Corp Fin gig paying about $85K all in first year. Not banking $ but not working banking hours either so hard to complain. Definitely have to hunt for your own in the job searching though as UTD network and career placement etc is not very strong. Having lived in both cities, Dallas>Houston but ultimately I do think so make some sacrifice career-wise by not living in NYC working in finance.
Corp Fin gig paying $85k all in first year? Is that in oil? That is pretty damn high.
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