Just checking in with the WSO community. Does Trump still suck? Haven’t seen any recent posts even despite his child determent camps. With Kennedy out, this represents a major change as the Court has overseen most of the sloppy work by the Trump administration. Also, he’s recharging a resurgent progressive/liberal force that has me realizing American life will probably never be the same post-Trump.
What are thoughts on current state of American life?
My dick is so MAGA hard.
Democrats are acting like children. Electing child socialists, supporting illegal immigration and still moaning about impeachment and Russia.
Trump is going to jam his second SCOTUS through. And this Blue wave is looking less and less likely.
I expect trade concessions, NK peace and Trump continuing to make liberals faint. Best think about big dog is how far left liberals have been pushed. Moderates will choose the Right over straight up communists and anti Americans.
This is interesting. First Republican bench in a long time I'm reading. But the electorate will most likely be blue for sometime, outside of Trump potentially being reelected to a second term. 2019 will be a test as blue will most likely make calls over and over again for impeachment. I don't think blue wave is less likely.
I agree with your point on moderates. I will definitely elect red over some of the nut jobs appearing through the weeds. And I still don't think Trump's record has not been all that clean, despite this constant image:
But the guy knows how to market nothing into something good and Trumpites love eating it up. Interesting times..
The other thing, Bloomberg seems to be pledging $80MM to fund moderates. This guy Seth Moulton, like Kamala Harris, both are blue, seem to have similar ideas to Hillary, and is a potential 2020 candidate. So, not all people on the left are as extreme as some on the right, and there are many who are worth following past 2018.
EDIT: Seth's a little on the edge. Don't have crazy strong support for him..
I would say the conflation of loudest = most relevant is alive and well on both sides.
The right (as a generality) doesn't want draconian treatment of asylum seekers, they want laws regarding immigration that have existed across several presidents to actually be enforced, to protect an already struggling unskilled worker base from erosion of opportunity at the hands of underpaid migrant labor.
The Left (as a generality) doesn't want a fucking hippie colony, they want people to have the ability to find success, whatever their background (equality of starting points, not equality of outcomes).
America is the Great Pendulum, as soon as it swings too far in one direction gravity (the will of the populace) pulls it back, you hit terminal velocity on the downswing going from left to right (as the right at currently doing). That momentum blows past the center and eventually runs out of steam and the cycle repeats. It's amazing, it's predictable, and it's what has always made America great, we like no other society in the world, truly govern ourselves.
Democrats would be themselves a favor to go back to their Kerry/Clinton roots and start caring about union workers and blue collar people. Sadly, it seems that Dems have become the party of socialism, communism, illegal immigration, and transgender.
Trump is trying to get peace with NK, renegotiate long overdue and old trade policies that have hurt many working Americans and finally fix the immigration mess three or four past presidents ignored.
And all Dems do is talk about impeachment or violence for Trump supporters. I mean Maxine Waters, cryin chuck and Pelosi is the face of the Dem party.
Right now, Trump resembles the Kerry/Clinton democrat more than current democrats do. In fact, if you strip away his Twitter rants and other insane statements made to please the alt-right, his policies closely align with that of an old school, blue-dog democrat and a mix of the current, moderate republican. (For context, I'm a conservative who thinks a Trump-led GOP is a bad situation for everyone involved).
The sad thing is, you can't have it both ways. Globalism--at least in its current form, where the US is the money source for every other bloodsucking country--doesn't really work well with all of the working class issues they claim exist (like free college tuition).
Most people can't tell you the difference in actual policy between Obama and Trump (not saying I can). People only think it's worst because the media tells them so.
Exactly.
I read a pretty interesting poll that showed only Democrats believe MSM anymore. 92% of the GOP thinks the MSM lies and a majority of moderates do as well.
Pretty nuts.
Dems have become the party of socialism, communism, illegal immigration, and transgenders. I'll pass.
People should read up about the rise of national socialism in Germany. The Nazis were pretty minor until Communism rose up. When faced with nationalism or Communism, moderates side with the right.
And what do we have now? We have Democrats being more fringe, the news endlessly acting like the world is ending, and Trump who is endlessly pro america, doing shit every past administration has done.
And to top it off, you have the left advocating and condoning violence.
Liberals should calm the fuck down. A civil war isn’t something anyone wants and I am pretty sure the gimps comprising the left after going to do too well if it does happen.
1) Trump tells his cult followers to "knock the crap out of" rally protestors 2) Alt-right Trump supporter plows his car into a crowd, killing one. Trump says there are good people on both sides 3) GOP House candidate Greg Gianforte assaults a reporter, gets elected to Congress anyway. 4) Right wing extremism kills more Americans than Muslim radicals.
Get bent @TNA"
Conservatives have become the party of autocrat worshippers, fear-mongering to their proudly ignorant base, anti-democratic win at all costs tactics (gerrymandering, restricting voting rights), corporate welfare, and absolute devotion to Trumpism. I'll pass.
Wrong, try again.
TNA, the Dems stopped caring about the unions and blue collar Americans when they took that out of their position during Bill Clinton's 1st campaign. That said, if they can capture those roots, it would be helpful. They also need to stop pushing identity politics and victimization. It is destroying the base internally and will further push moderate democrats away.
As far as the Kennedy issue goes, this one has me fucking pissed. And it would be the same if Hillary won. Both Trump and Clinton would not nominate a moderate to fill Kennedy's seat. This is, in my mind, problematic.
First, it fucks with the country's policies for the next 20 years. I firmly believe that congress treats the courts as a fucking game. They think it's about stroking the ego and winning. Having a moderate swing vote on the court actually means that the laws are reviewed and not every decision goes one way or another. It means that the court is doing their job and being impartial. Moderates allow for that.
For Trump, with Ginsburg and Breyer both getting closer to retiring, it may shift the court from a 5-4 majority to a 7-2 majority during the next 6 years. If Clinton won, we'd be looking at Garland filling the vacant seat for Scalia, and replacing Ginsburg and Breyer with fairly liberal judges, giving the bench a stronger liberal hold, while talking about the liberal replacements for Kennedy and Thomas which would make a 6-3/7-2 liberal court. Neither of these courts are good for the people and when the other side has the opportunity to strike back, it swings the pendulum back to the other side and we lose sight of the nature of the Supreme Court.
2) The further in one direction the court goes, the worse things get for the country. This is a both sides of the aisle issue as everyone on the left will scream about Roe v. Wade, Gay Rights, etc. under a Right leaning court while the right would scream about gun rights, privacy rights, etc. under a left leaning court. This is a case of pleasing the extremes at the expense of the middle. I don't see anything good coming from it.
3) This just furthers the case for Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don't care what anyone says, but the fact is people are protesting simply because it's Trump. Without even knowing who the first nominee will be, there are talks about trying to get people on board to push back the nomination until after the mid-terms. Personally, I think that's fucking absurd. I also firmly believe that Republicans got it wrong by refusing to hear any of Obama's nominations for Scalia's replacement. Using the nuclear option to get Gorsuch approved sets a horrible precedent. It just furthers the case for what I said about the government treating the courts like a fucking joke.
Right now, I'm just waiting until the next Harper's Ferry. That's where I think we're eventually headed.
This is close to my initial thoughts. Between McConnell's theft of SCOTUS and Trump, the Right has no idea how seething mad and motivated the Left is in this country. The chain of events that gave us the Tea Party and Trump is about to repeat itself on the left. Democratic have won 6 of the last 7 presidential popular votes, and yet the Supreme Court is now lost for a generation. I don't know what Bernie Sanders v2.0 looks like, but it probably won't be too palatable to this country's moderates and conservatives.
It's only been since 2000 where the dems have won a popular vote but lost the election. W.'s second term he took the popular vote and the election, but then again, reelection campaigns have more commonly seen the incumbent win. Same with the popular vote. There has yet to be an incumbent who won the electoral college while losing the popular vote.
I think that regardless of who won the presidency, the court would be lost for a generation. McConnell's theft of SCOTUS sets a dangerous precedent, which is why I'm angry over that. If Scalia had died with three months to go before the election, I could at least rationalize a situation where putting a hold on the nomination might be reasonable, particularly when it comes to getting people back to Washington for a confirmation hearing in the middle of an election where a majority of seats in both houses were up for reelection. It doesn't mean I would agree with it, but I could understand the logic because now you've gone and caused further chaos during the election with a situation that has never happened before. But that's a different story.
As far as the anger of the left, they have been on their way to a tea party moment since 2008. It's been a slow burn until 2016. I do think that people on the right know how seething mad the left is, but at some point it's hard to take it seriously when everything is a fucking outrage to them. Once there's a moment of violence, then the right will take the left's outrage seriously. I swear though, we are on our way to Harper's Ferry.
The popular vote argument is stupid. Campaigns would be totally different if it were for the popular vote. I know plenty of conservatives in CA who didn't vote in the last election because a Republican can't win (Trump lost by >4 million votes). If it were based on the popular vote, I bet the margin wouldn't be quite so far apart.
TX is the only state with a dozen or more electoral votes that always goes Republican. CA, NY, IL all have 20+ and are guaranteed to go Democrat. There are plenty of conservatives in these types of states who just don't vote because they will lose by a big margin regardless. The same can't really be said of liberals, other than maybe in TX, but even then Dallas, Houston, and Austin all go blue even now.
I liked Garland, at least he was a moderate liberal.
.
Liberals are so triggered by Trump that it has cost them their reputation as a group to be treated seriously.
Dems need an actual platform other than impeach Trump. NYC electing that idiot socialist is just a bad move. If liberals turn on established Dems, it will undercut their obvious enthusiasm for the midterm.
And let’s have a fucking border wall improvement with actual ICE with teeth. Most Americans realize the need for a normal immigration process.
Even most Democrats oppose the abolition of ICE.
Trump is still bad but conservatives have to love the fact that he will maintain the 5-4 conservative-liberal split.
Once the Kennedy announcement hit the press yesterday I took a stroll down to democraticunderground.com and was wildly entertained the rest of the afternoon. The meltdown was pure nuclear compared to the night when Trump won POTUS.
I know many here do not view conservatism favorably but there is some batshit loonies on that site.
I bet RBG is working out overtime now.
Trump is doing some good things but he is also doing some really bad things.
Ahh, politics.
Just a couple of personal thoughts.
I was vociferously anti-Trump during the GOP primary and reluctantly voted for him in the general election. There were a decent number of Republicans such as myself who were open to voting 3rd party or even Hillary but ultimately pulled the trigger for Trump. Why? After the DNC, Hillary had the chance to move to the center and win over disaffected Republicans such as myself. Instead, her platform was the most liberal in modern history: higher taxes, more regulations, Obamacare on steroids, liberal judges, lax immigration enforcement, more refugees and low skilled migrants, increased identity politics. There was simply nothing for conservatives and center-right independents. Given what was at stake, despite Trump's MANY flaws, we went with Trump.
Thus far, I am actually shocked at how pleased I am with the Trump presidency. After he won, I thought he would govern as a Democrat. Given his personal history and complete lack of commitment to conservatism, there was no reason to think otherwise. But this has been the most conservative presidency in modern history, even moreso than Reagan's. Yes, the GOP Congress has been frustratingly ineffective, but Trump has effectively used the executive powers of the presidency to implement conservative policies.
Trump is not an ideological conservative, which makes it tougher for liberals to push him into a corner. He is first and foremost a nationalist and a pragmatist: he believes that every policy and deal should benefit Americans and that ideological purity is far less important than actual results. Unlike Obama, who saw himself as a global citizen and spent his presidency apologizing for American exceptionalism, Trump is unabashedly a pro-American President who defends American interests. I think his voters understand that and resonate with him deeply on a cultural and visceral level.
The Democrats have moved so far left that it's unrecognizable from the party of Bill Clinton. Its most visible leaders are Bernie, Warren, Kamala. 44% of its primary voters voted for an actual unapologetic socialist. Multiple socialists have won the primary for House seats, including the woman who beat Crowley in NY-14 (Bronx and Queens). Medicare for all, free college for all, $15 minimum wage, and government guaranteed jobs for everyone, are now part of the Democratic Party's platform. On immigration, they believe that foreign nationals possess a legal and moral right to enter our country. They reject proposals to enforce immigration laws, to protect the border, and to increase resources for an overstrained immigration bureaucracy (judges, border agents, etc.). They also want blanket amnesty and citizenship for those who broke our laws by entering illegally (or overstaying their visas) as adults. Many on the Left have compared GOP immigration policies to those of Nazi Germany and the internment of Japanese-Americans, reaching a hysteria that is both comical and disturbing.
If Democrats continue this leftward lurch, the result will not be good. I believe we need 2 healthy parties: center-left and center-right. Extremism should be rejected by both sides. Unfortunately, the Democrats' anger at Trump is blinding them, preventing them from making smart strategic decisions. In 1992, after losing 4 of the 5 previous presidential elections in landslides (2 of them being 49-state losses), the Democrats got smart and nominated a charismatic moderate named Bill Clinton. Of course, the Democrats are now far stronger at presidential elections than back then, thanks in large part to Bill Clinton’s re-alignment of white suburban voters . But once you account for all federal, state, and local offices, the Democrats are in their weakest position since the 1920's. If they move to the center and nominate a strong articulate moderate who presents an optimistic vision and a policy platform that shuns identity politics and socialism, they can win big in 2020.
I think that you're right that the dems are not the party of Bill Clinton, but you forget that Clinton himself part of the Watergate Baby generation. Part of the problem is that the Watergate Babies helped fuck up American Politics in the worst ways. This isn't to say that they were good or bad, but their effects were significantly pronounced. They were the first to frame policy goals and ideals as rights. There was no right to environmental protection until the Watergate Babies made it a right instead of a policy. There was no right to healthcare until the Watergate Babies made it a right. That was something that didn't happen prior to the arrival of the Watergate Babies. Politico had a great write-up on this. It's an interesting take, but something worth reading, especially given the shift in party politics.
It's annoying when people think nationalism and capitalism can't be compatible.
It's annoying that any suggestion left of center, a la higher progressive tax rates as one method to reduce the growing issue of income inequality in this country, is immediately linked to socialism and Venezuela.
Raise taxes lol. Is there anything more taxes can’t cure.
One trick pony.
He wouldn't have been my first, second or third choice of president but I like most of what he's doing.
Lines have to be drawn with illegal and legal immigration at some point, our foreign/trade policy can't be to concede everything in the name of "diplomacy" forever, and the tax cuts are cash.
I do wish the Republican party would take environmental issues a little more seriously though. If we wait until it starts getting too late to address it, then we're going to find ourself in a serious pickle down the line. It's sort of like the national debt in that regard. No politician wants to be the buzzkill who incurs the costs of cutting back on environmental degradation or national spending, because it comes at certain costs and doesn't make an immediate impact that the American people can really feel.
I'd also like to see some sort of estate tax on people inheriting over 10-50Million. We all know why it's nearly impossible to actually enforce an estate tax on the super-wealthy, but it would be nice to tax people who are trying to build wealth up from scratch less and tax people who are inheriting a couple dozen million a bit more.
I generally agree with all of this. It's just the poor taste of Trump that stings me.
The moment people start distrusting the media, blindly believing an authority figure, and disregard facts is the moment that democracy is in danger. Like right now. Lots of dems are overreacting (I compare it to over steering when you're learning to drive), but this country has some problems and Trump, imo, is only making it worse.
The media is the clear enemy of the people. CNN is cancer.
And they did it to themselves. Endless lies, stretching the truth and “unnamed” sources.
I spend zero time watching US media. Worthless. I complain at every admirals club when I see trashNN on.
Trump was a PoS when he was a liberal and he's still a PoS as a conservative. How anyone can take seriously a guy that, up to 2016, claimed Obama was born in Kenya, China invented global warming to undermine US manufacturing, and that Ted Cruz's dad was involved in Kennedy's assassination blows my mind. And that's just the tip of the iceberg
I think the only thing we agree on is that the US (and allies) needs to get tougher on China.
Newfound? I’m sorry, but I’ve never been demonizing Russia.
Tough on both? Why? We need a counter to China. The USA isn’t the global arbitrator of right and wrong.
And they didn’t hack or influence our election. HRC was trash and Trump spoke to a wider swath of voters.
Politics is becoming religion, ppl don't care about facts, people vote blindly for party, and, as a result, democracy is under assault. Funny story: One of my firm's partners is a Trump guy and he honestly believes the Stormy Daniels story is fake news. The payment has been ADMITTED TO by Trump but he says he paid her because she threatened to impune his reputation with a false sex allegation. He believes Trump is a moral man, moreso than Obama ever was. This is the face of politics in 2018. A grown ass man, a college graduate, an accomplished individual, has his head so far up Trump's ass that he can't believe a dude on his 3rd wife who admitted to a payoff had sex with a pornstar. It's clear that Trump is his messiah and can do no wrong in his eyes. It's clear that no matter what Trump does he will support it and holds no real convictions of his own. This isn't how democracy is supposed to work. Kim Jong Un could only dream of such blind fealty. This is politics in 2018. Hopefully we will survive this shit. The tribalism that has become the two party system is a cancer and a threat to our nation.
Lol TNA literally announced his dick is hard for Trump in this thread. I don't know how anybody could take his blind obedience/sexual obsession seriously.
Reading a politics thread on WSO is a great refreshment to realize how many degenerate Trump supporters are in finance.
Degenerate. Deplorable. Bigots.
Such a non dynamic vocabulary to describe people who support a person who champions America, believes in borders, wants to end the Korean War and signed an amazing tax cut.
But you obviously know better.
I do.
Funny how you don't see anyone bitching about political posts when they're made by the resident lefties.
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