Hey Monkeys,
Have a friend in another part of the country I met through some PWM networking who's in a bit of a pickle and I don't know how to advise her. She's 27, went to a non target and while very smart she did not major in finance (GPA was in the 3.5-3.7 range, can't remember exactly). She's been in PWM for about 4 years, has been back office mostly but recently has been allowed to assist with some portfolio management duties (sitting in on investment committee meetings, sourcing ideas, putting in block trades, etc.).
She has read the handwriting on the wall and may want to exit PWM since she doesn't see a future with her current firm (smallish firm, team based, not a major wirehouse) and doesn't want to try to become an advisor. She didn't go into the reasons for this, I can speculate but that's really not relevant. She is a good stock picker (we share ideas, she's not the same value style I am but we always share good ideas), and is very bright, but has never done any modelling before; not out of inability or disinterest, but because it just hasn't been necessary for her role. Her group has research analysts that will crunch all of the numbers for her, and she simply reviews the analysis for investment committee meetings and then will make the call (with blessing of other PMs) and be held accountable for the decision.
She is thinking about trying to make the jump to the buyside but realizes this might be tough given no modelling experience. She has passed level 1 of the CFA but failed level 2 and decided to take a break. She would like to look at equity hedge funds (growth equity or value, just not a deep value shop), AM, maybe PE (huge stretch I know), or possibly even sell side ER. I don't really know what to tell her since if she wants to make this move soon she won't have time to do the CFA, and I don't know if getting her modelling chops up would even help (for whatever it's worth, she's confident that with her math skills, she could learn modelling), or what to get to teach it (WSO, WSP, coursera accounting, etc.). Her timeline is not super near term, she's got probably 1-2 years before she needs to seriously start looking.
I mentioned MBA but right now that's not an option, she's supporting some of her family right now and cant go without pay (sick grandparents or parents, can't remember). I bet her GMAT would be over 700 (possibly higher), but she can't entertain that option right now.
Any ideas on what she could do specifically to help fill in the gaps that have been created to make a move to the buyside easier? I have advised her that she'll want to hit up smaller shops first via traditional ways (intros from current contacts, cold calling, CFA society stuff, etc.), but I bet that if she tells them she's a portfolio manager who's never done any modelling, she'll get laughed off the phone.
Thanks guys!
PS: PB/PWM post coming later this week. All of my partners are out traveling so I'm having to field all of our clients' questions, been a bit busy.
Given her profile (non-target, non-finance undergrad, back-office, etc), the limited number of buyside seats available, and the number of competitive applicants for those positions I don't see how she can make herself competitive without completely re-branding herself by attending a top FT MBA. Any idea how many hours she studied for CFA L2 and what band she failed? L2 is by far the most relevant from an analytical and valuation perspective so the fact that she failed is definitely a setback.
Also, not entirely sure why you reference her math ability with respect to modelling as the math required is really that of a high school level. She should probably take an intro to accounting course, corporate finance course, and then a modelling course. Plenty of free course options through Kahn Academy, Coursera, etc.
If she is confident in her ability to get a balanced 700+ GMAT she could be a competitive MBA applicant given her high GPA and assuming that she is able to check the other boxes (E/CS, leadership positions, career growth, recos, etc.).
Also, I've never given much credence to "good stock-pickers" who dont generate their own ideas and run their own analysis. Not saying that is the case here and definitely acknowledge that one can build a decent track record of security selection without in depth modelling but just something for her to think about when she is asked in an interview to pitch a stock and put together a supporting model/deck.
I think completing L2 in December would be a step in the right direction but definitely an uphill battle.
she studied over 200, probably under 300 hours for L2, never told me exactly. I remember when we would chat she had lots going on outside of work (sick family, travel to see long distance boyfriend, stuff like that), and probably just didn't study much. not sure what band she failed in, I know she said she did well on FRA (>70%) and average on everything else, but don't know what the details were. assuming she eventually passes, will the fact that she failed once even matter? I'm just curious, I'm ignorant to that stuff, never interviewed someone with CFA as a consideration.
thanks for the reply. I'll mention the stuff about modelling to her, perhaps she can incorporate that into her day to day and make her pitches to her PM more impactful (or even better, question her analysts more thoroughly). that way, she can bring historical decks for actual recommendations she made to buy/not buy/sell/short/etc.
keep em comin monkeys!
I think if the goal is a move 1 to 2 years from now then she can try and position herself to be more competitive then. Do the steps @"junkbondswap" suggested but it just seems like she has too much going on to realistically position herself. She's going to have to give up some stuff if she really wants it. Whether it be skipping out on a trip to see the long distance boyfriend in order to attend a course or giving up her social life/sleep.
Also of note. The not passing level 2 is much bigger blunder than you'd think because it is only offered in June. That means waiting a whole year to sit for it again.
thanks. I think she was concerned about it being an issue in interviews, like people asking if she failed it ever and then dinging her for that. forgot to mention, long distance isn't an issue, she's now single, so perhaps CFA is an option again.
keep the suggestions coming, this is all great stuff
Some interviewers may ask if a candidate has ever failed a level and whether that adversely impacts the candidate's prospects is really interviewer specific.
@"thebrofessor", she must have made a hell of an impression on you to get you to write this post for her, instead of you telling her to make a post and ask the good folks of WSO.
(not shitting on you at all, got great respect for your posts and advice. just found this somewhat funny.)
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