Why aren't more state flagships target schools like UVA, Berkeley?
If we use SAT scores as a proxy of intelligence why aren't schools like UFlorida, Georgia Tech, and etc being looked at targets the same way Berkeley, Michigan, UVA are? UVA has an average of 1410, Berkley 1430, Michigan 1460. Meanwhile, practically no one is recruiting at Georgia Tech, UCLA, and Florida which have averages of 1460, 1420, and 1390 respectively. Given that Georgia Tech, UCLA, and Florida have twice as many students as UVA and assuming a standard bell curve in a numerical count there would be more "smarter students" at those previously mentioned schools than at UVA. If banks are trying to get the smartest most hardworking students it seems that banks aren't diverting enough attention to state flagships outside the big three. (Full disclosure I'm a UVA student as you can tell by my post history)
Location
Right off the bat, geography seems to be a plausible explanation. I'm sure that GT and UF do well in their respective markets. This doesn't explain Michigan, but I think that it's a pretty good rule of thumb.
Because alumni presence is far more important than average SAT scores. Bankers don't know the average SAT of GT or Florida off the top of their heads, and they wouldn't care even if they did. But if they went to UVA or Michigan then they'll look out for and push for kids who go there. For example, do you remember the post about how shitty UCLA's placement is, even though it's the number 1 public school on some rankings? It's a relationship business, and these schools just don't have the relationships with finance professionals.
You could say similar about JHU.
Yes the same could be said of JHU. But someone attending JHU who is aware of the concept of target schools as a high school senior is very likely to gain admission to any non HYPSM target school with better recruiting than JHU and comparable financial aid and similar tuition for those that don't qualify as JHU.
The same shouldn't be said for public colleges. As financial aid is limited and tuition is quadruple for those attending the marginally better public colleges out of state, why should someone be severely punished for saving 150k+ by attending the slightly worse in state flagship?
I would say more people I've met in school than not became interested in IB only after starting school.
I wouldn't expect most to know about the concept of a target school in high school.
And I say this as someone attending a T5 public.
you guys forgot to mention that UVA, Mich, and Berkeley have strong MBA programs which also drives the alumni network. UF, GT and some of the other schools you mentioned do not have a strong graduate business school with a history of placing IB associates.
^^^ Right on the money.
This. I would add that having a combined undergrad with a strong MBA program is more than just a branding issue. It's almost a type of value-creation play similar to what you have in finance (e.g. M&A) where you see synergies happen from combining.
For instance:
Professors- The school can share the same teachers, leveraging their resources by having them teach undergrads too. Very good to do if you have great professors there already.
Career Services - By sharing a career services center, the school can extend their reach. For instance, if the school has a good relationship with GS so that GS recruits their MBAs, they can easily have GS come to campus to recruit their undergrads too.
Alumni - Having gone to one of the mentioned schools (UVA, Mich, Berkeley) with both a BBA/MBA program, I can say the MBAs are usually quite open to helping the undergrads with anything career-related. Sure, the MBAs have stronger networks with other MBAs, but they're still helpful to undergrads. This even happens after graduation. Many of the B-school's alumni clubs are combined both MBA/undergrad where all alums help each other out.
No hate, but I think it's hilarious that you did (UVA, Mich, Berkeley) when your username is literally "23Mich"
UCLA Anderson is a decent MBA program for IB placement, but UCLA still gets little recruitment.
For Georgia Tech, in addition to some of the points made above (location, weaker MBA program, fewer alumni, etc.) I'd say it also has a lot to do with a lack of interest in finance. Something like 70% of students at the university are Engineering/CS majors, and so the career paths that people take largely reflect that, where most are more interested in tech/industry/grad school than going into careers like banking
Because Tech is a bunch of nerds and Florida is a bunch of Jean short wearing meth heads. Fuck both of them.
sincerely, a University of Georgia fan
Banks are like if your school has a finance major, it would be better if you took it; however, all of the undergraduate business schools aren’t equal. All the state targets have strong undergraduate business programs (Berk/UT/Mich), but the other schools mentioned like UF/Georgia Tech are weaker in that area and are stronger in STEM.
Even if you want to make the argument that SAT scores are a proxy for intelligence, I think most targets are much higher than the low-mid 1400's range. For my year, a Wharton dean told us our average SAT was 1500+. I think Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc. are all 1500+,
Don't think anyone is arguing that Georgia Tech or UFlorida grads are more intelligent than those from Harvard. Stanford, MIT, etc. But at the same time, for obvious reasons like size and in-state focus, it wouldn't make sense to compare private schools to public schools, hence the point of this thread comparing public schools to each other.
I think HYP hovers around 1540.
Many Michigan Ross students hail from the Tri-state area, which may explain a preference for returning to Manhattan in a banking role too.
very true. 10% of my Ross class was from the same area in Long Island
Umm..because target schools HYPMSW have SAT ranges well above that..like 1510-1580..and in reality those who legitimately into those target on pure academics have SAT probably 1550 -1600..PLUS they have 4+GPA..Plus they often have like 10 plus AP creds..all 5s. Plus...must I go on? In all honesty is this question a joke?
I go to HYPSMW but OP's question makes plenty of sense — why the Georgia Techs or UCLAs or Floridas of the world, which overall are comparable to other flagship state unis like UVA/Michigan/Berkeley etc, are not comparable to those unis for IB placement?
Admissions aren't as clearcut anymore. I went to a public high school and kids with 4+ GPAs and 1550+ ended up at semitargets or good state schools. A few got into ivy+, but the white and asian guys (including me) had to settle for less in like 2/3 of cases.
As a white guy at hypsmw, you just weren't good enough bro, accept it, nothing wrong with that. Admissions are a crapshoot for Ivy+ in that there's no way to know where you'll get in, but if you're legit qualified on all levels & write well, you'll get into an Ivy/Duke/MIT/Stanford/Vandy/USC/UVA type university (anywhere that's an actual target or semitarget for banking) 100%
.
I guess litterally my entire mostly white middle-class public highschool of 400 kids in Mass, known for its public schools just wasn't good enough. We are sending 1 URM to an ivy and another to an ivy as an athlete (think broke every record). One of which was in the top 10. 9/10 students in the top 10 are going to the state flagship or a semi-target like USC/Vandy/UVA, which don't deserve to be listed with the other schools at all. Ivy-league admissions as a white/asian male coming from a public school are a much bigger crap-shoot than most non-privateschool/athlete/URM understand. An elite private school might send 40kids/year to ivies and 100/year when you include Duke/Uchicago/Stanford/MIT etc while any public school with double the class size would be lucky to send just one kid to one third of the schools listed. Sure, the private school kids might be better, but I'd bet my life that the top (30?) kids at my public highschool would do just as well academically at a private school if given the chance.
Throw in the fact that someone might be a little under-privileged (having to work alot, no money for tutors, bad technology available etc. and your chances likely become (as a white/asian male) what, like 1/500 to get into HYPSMW.
Edit: I'm really not salty about the way it is, I accept it and I plan on sending my kids to an elite private school when I'm older (god willing lol). I think that rich/successful parents should definitely be able to help their kids future as much as possible. I jacked off most of highschool and ended up at a semi-target because I had 99th percentile testing, a decent class rank and good essays (based on working up to 40hours/week in school). But this kind of "you just weren't good enough bro, accept it, nothing wrong with that " just makes you seem like an absolute asshole who doesn't realize the privilege he likely had. (I'm a trump supporter, so I reall cringed saying that last part but just stop being a fucking douche man and adding "nothing wrong with that" to make yourself seem like less of one really doesn't help.
If you look at UFs MSF combined degree program, they place well every single year. Multiple kids going to BB and EBs in NYC.
Link for reference..... https://warrington.ufl.edu/master-of-science-in-finance/careers/student…
In general, UF is getting harder and harder to get into. Personally know a kid who was a double legacy, had 34 ACT / 1440 SAT with a 4.0+ weighted GPA, Class president, 4 sport athlete who just got denied this past year. Granted he is a white, hereto, male, but still.
not too great. 80 percent or so were to MO or low tier UBS/RBC/WF. surprised that evercore takes a couple though.
To be honest, grabbed the link and didn’t look through. The guys I know that went through the program (5 years ago or so) all are doing pretty well. But you’ve got a valid point in this years class. Normally place a lot of Jeff too, so interesting to see that there weren’t any.
Couple MBB though, gotta be worth something.
Who cares...all non-targets
Georgia Tech has less undergrads than UVA, btw
It's basically a never ending cycle of banks receiving talented kids from those schools long ago, them doing well, and then the banks continuing to recruit at those schools. Unless the quality really drops off, banks will continue to recruit at a select group of schools because they know what they're getting. Not really fair to schools rising in the rankings but what can you do.
Well, it's also that most strong kids interested in finance are picking UVA/Mich/Cal over the other schools, so it is not just perception and alumni base but there is clearly higher quality and higher quantity of finance students for banks to recruit at those targets.
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